The East Contra Costa Fire Protection District was provided polling Monday evening which may cause the Fire Board to hold off on a June Parcel Tax.
Charles Heath, a consultant the District recently hired from TBWB Strategies, presented the Board with public opinion polling thanks to Local 1230.
According to the polling of 300 likely voters in June, just 54% would support a $98 parcel tax which is far below the 66.6% needed to pass. He explained that under a best case scenario of margin of error, it would be difficult to get above 60% support at this time.
“I have significant concerns of moving forward with a parcel tax at this time. I am quite confident that if you go forward and place a parcel tax on the June Ballot it would not reach that 2/3 vote,” said Heath.
Heath explained that even at different dollar amounts and education within the poll, it didn’t change support—it actually reduced it from 54% down to 52%. He found education and outreach that the information did not change the votes.
Board Member Greg Cooper shared his frustration by stating no matter how you look at it, its being suggested that there is no chance for a June Parcel Tax to pass.
Heath responded by saying he did not think it would pass in June.
“Based off the data I have you cannot make up the 13% deficit between now and June,” said Heath.
He further explained that you could increase support through outreach and education, but not enough to make up the 13% needed to pass a tax. He explained that polling stayed at 54% support and even after more questioning stayed at 54% support, then more questioning it dropped to 52%. He also shared that polling in 2012 was 56% it tells him opinions on the fire service are pretty stable.
“I am really struggling to see the path to 2/3 amongst among the voters. Either we need to talk about different group of voters such as a larger group of voters in November General Election or talking about a measure that has a different threshold for success because I am not seeing it for June voters for a success,” said Heath.
Heath further shared that even under an optimistic margin of error, a based case scenario of support puts them just shy of 60% leading him to believe success in June will be unlike.
He also explained that according to polling, East County is satisfied with their fire service and are unaware of a crises that is coming if they go down to 3-stations.
Board President Joel Bryant asked about not putting a measure on the ballot until Nov and what it does to staffing.
The Chief explained that the SAFER Grant would ensure staffing until November but a successful November campaign would mean no funds are available until June 2015 and there would be short-term closures.
Director Joe Young asked under a November scenario, what percentage of firefifhters would leave? He did not believe enough would stick around to see if they still have a job and asked what kind of problem that has.
Chief Hugh Henderson explained that given the information from the consultant, he is worried about staffing between now and November sharing that three current employees are in process of going to another agency.
The Chief stated that the firefighters have worked hard to show the public that there is not a problem within the District which is why the public as a whole is happy with their fire service.
“I’ll put a different spin on that 75%. I think we need to be proud of the work our crews are doing. Even though it’s been a constant struggle, it’s at 75% approval rating,” said Henderson. “I am very proud of that. I am concerned about moral of staff and concerned about keeping staff. We may have a hard time maintaining our station level just based on the information tonight. There are other agencies getting the SAFER Grant within the Bay Area so the ability for the employee to move is out there.”
Director Cooper suggested that it doesn’t sound like $98 will work in June and it doesn’t work in November as well so the staffing between now and November is an issue. He shared his concerns that a lesser amount is going to affect staffing permanently.
Chief Henderson provided a warning about what would happen if the District goes below 5-stations in what it does to response times and what is needed in fighting a structure fire.
Director Cooper admitted that if $98 doesn’t work in June, they are reducing staffing period.
Director Ronald Johansen shared that he was amazed that it would be this difficult to pass a $98 tax because it’s just 26-cents per day which protects ones family, friends and property.
A number of speakers spoke during Public Comments which includes both elected and former elected officials.
Diane Burgis, of the Oakley City Council, suggested they need to do everything possible to pass a tax.
“26-cents per day is nothing. The other part of it is $100 is nothing when you need that service and I’ve needed that service in my life for my children more than I’d like to admit,” said Burgis.
Bob Mankin, Discovery Bay, says the board has not showed the public a value for its fire service.
“I think it’s pretty obvious the District is going to be faced with a three-station model and could be less than 3-stations come November,” said Mankin. “I think you kind of have it backwards and focused on the dollar amount and tried to beg and plead with people to see a value in the dollar amount.”
He accused the board of not realizing the problem and showing a value.
“The problem is different; it’s that they don’t see a value in the service in itself. If people saw value in the fire service itself you get all kind of support and the dollar amount is a secondary issue and part of it is the poisoning of the well by folks who are anti-pension and anti-tax. I was a little bit stunning at the outreach meeting some of the questions were still there from 2-years ago so the educational component failed miserably last time. Some people don’t want to be educated it doesn’t matter how long you tell them they are not going to get it but there should still be a significant percentage you can reach through proper and comprehension effort.”
He praised Director Young for showing salary figures and catching people off guard for how little firefighters in the District make compared to its neighbors and shared people were going off assumptions and headlines.
He suggested more education was key to future success that begins with grassroots.
“You get an education component and campaign that is grassroots and comprehensive and a great length of time. Trying to do it in six-weeks is a joke, that was an absolute joke,” said Mankin. “You can start now, go in November or next June to build value into the minds of the voters because without value you are not reaching voters.”
Mark Whitlock, Bethel Island, stated that if people understand that the service level they are getting is because the firefighters, staff, board is doing double-time trying to cover all this stuff for the people it would change minds.
“If they really understood how important it was to stick with the five stations it would get voted in by 90%,” said Whitlock.
Vince Wells, Local 1230 President, stated they were the ones who did the poll as a way to see where they stand with the community.
“The reason we did the poll at this time is because we realize our firefighters and the district does not have a lot of time and it was a concern of ours that if a poll was not done to see if things changed, “said Wells. “Our guys are busting their asses and that is why the public feels why they are getting an adequate level of service. We did this poll to make it clear where we are at and if there was any chance.“
If it was to go forward, it needs to be the talk of the town and in every conversation with all the elected officials behind it. It would also need the fireboard to be more involved.
David Piepho, former Discovery Bay CSD Director and LAFCO Commissioner stated its time to give the public what they asked for which is a reduced service model to highlight the need for revenue.
“I was really hoping it would not come to this. I’ve spent 14-years working on a town council, years on LAFCO trying to warn about this train wreck, it’s real clear to me that the only thing that will get people’s attention is once the train wrecks. Director Johansen you asked what it’s going to take, I honestly think what it’s going to take is you guys going down to three stations,” said Piepho. “As a former firefighter it pains me to say that. You won’t get the public’s attention doing anything short of closing stations.”
He suggested that because the firefighters work hard everyday to step up to the plate to do their job, it sends a message to the public that nothing is going on and that they are okay. He suggested they stop with a Band-Aid approach, but go for a solution.
“I personally could not support a tax for $100, but I would for $300—that tells you where I stand. We can’t put a Band-Aid on the District, we need a solution. If we put forward a tax that is not enough to make it a better district we end up doing what the grant did which is giving the public a false sense of security and that is the direction you are headed in now,” said Piepho.
One solution he presented was allow the public to experience response times by doubling up staffing at stations and closing two stations now.
“Let the public feel what it’s like not to have those stations open and available because today they do not see and not impacted. They are not showing up to the meetings, they don’t care,” said Piepho. “I don’t know how to say it any better than the consultant did. Trying to educate them verbally it’s making no difference going into November. You are going to be stuck in the same place. Waiting until Sunday night to do your homework doesn’t work. You are going to have to think out of the box to get out of this mess because it’s not going to fix itself.”
Discovery Bay CSD Director Kevin Graves stated he was embarrassed that he was not aware of a Outreach Meeting in Discovery Bay which highlights the need to improve outreach. If he didn’t know about it, many others would not know. He also expressed concern because Discovery Bay is the third largest population in the District.
“The word has got to get out better when these things are going on,” said Graves. “I do agree you have to get what you can to keep five stations open, but remember that two of the three stations serving Discovery Bay did not re-open they are still close. The people in Discovery Bay are not enamored with the situation that we are paying a higher per-capita for fire services than Oakley and Brentwood which are much higher population model. It just costs us higher per person for service models. I think it’s worth the effort. Let’s try and do something here and make it happen.”
Director Steve Smith said he was convinced a June election would not work.
“I am convinced that a likely election in June that 40% will not vote for the tax under any circumstance and no positive argument will move them,” said Smith. “This leads me to believe that placing a parcel tax on the June Ballot will be the functional equivalent of not trying at all with the added negatives of further poisoning the well and representing a misuse of public funds.”
Director Smith believes they should move the ballot from June to November to mitigate risk from the public perception and work on outreach and education.
Director Young stated that during the public outreach there was a lot of resistance at the meeting but some progress through education process. He urged the board to realize the tax figure changes from June to November.
“If we don’t pass a parcel tax in June, the District will not have $4.4 million dollars to keep the five-stations open. This means there will be staffing reductions in November,” said Young.
He explained that the further you move a tax back; the collection becomes higher to make up the difference. A decision to go in November automatically makes the decision the Board are no longer working towards a five-station model.
“We cannot in good conscious not give the public one more chance to make a decision as to what level of service they are willing to pay for. I think we need to give them that chance. If we don’t do it in June they no longer have that chance. We are making that decision right now that there is going to be less than five-stations. I think we need to do what we said and give the public a last chance and educate them as well as we can,” said Young. “The public has a responsibility, if they tell us they don’t want it then we can live with that. The idea of letting a poll take away from the public that opportunity to make a decision.”
Director Cooper stated that the polling process is very scientific. There is no reason to believe the poling information that we got this go around is any different.
“I think moving forward with the election kind of makes us feel good because it gets the monkey off our back to say look we took it to the public and it didn’t go forward, therefore what are we going to do, there is nothing we can do. From the position of intelligence, it doesn’t make any sense,” said Cooper. “When you look at this polling information or from other elections, when the polling information comes this far down it doesn’t make sense to go forward. The sampling done represents the votership of this district and they decided they are not interested in paying a tax and they are willing to have a reduction in staff.”
Cooper stated that going forward; they have to reach the entire District. We have to go forward in
“Unfortunately, Mr. Piepho said you know what maybe this District has to actually get what it asks for. You know what, the hard part about that is what it’s going to get is extremely painful, extremely painful! Unfortunately it’s the firefighters that we have in this District that are going to be without jobs,” said Cooper. “One thing that sticks out to me is that the firefighters continue to stay in this District at 30-40% below neighboring jurisdictions. Why are they still here? They clearly say because they love this district, there is something about this District and I don’t get it. For whatever reason, this community is not getting behind the District.”
He called it frustrating that there is nothing in the polling that triggers a response favorable to get an election up to a good place where it needs to be.
Director Young wanted to make it clear you have to understand that a failure to have parcel tax in June at $98 it’s an automatic decision to go to less than 5-stations. He explained there is no action that can occur in November that will maintain a 5-station model.
He started that $98 in June, in November its $125 to make up for the shortfall.
Director Cheryl Morgan brought up the idea of other types of tax which was quickly dismissed by Director Smith stating a benefit assessment would get the District sued and they would lose.
Board President Joel Bryant questioned the comments by Mr. Piepho.
“One of the things I continue to fear, it’s not that I don’t understand the view point is that the comment of Mr. Piepho and other about no change until the district feels pain, I understand where that is coming from but at the same time what we are looking at is if we don’t have 5 stations is we are looking at a 40% reduction in services,” said Bryant.
He shared that it means when 10-people call 9-1-1, there is every probability that 4-people will not receive a responsive time that is any benefit to them. He suggested that if 10 people stood up, 4 need to sit down because they wont receive any response or benefit to themselves or their property.
He then suggested holding ones breath for 15-to-17 minutes to see how uncomfortable that situation is and highlighted they do have calls in the district now with that response time.
“We are not talking about numbers, each one of these numbers has a face, a name, a family and so when we throw out terminology about we are going to let the District feel the pain, what you are saying is we are willing to let your family suffer the loss of a loved one or severe injury or loss of a property to get a point across,” said Bryant. “I cannot in good conscious not make every effort to prevent that situation from happening because my family lives here and I have friends here too.”
He stated the district addressed pensions, addressed several other issues, everything you can physically and finally to address the challenges that the community presented us.
During Measure S, we could have and should have tried a little more effort and study with. The questions were valid and were addressed. The only changes that can be made now are out of the District hands and lay at the State level.
“Being a first responder as a Chaplin with the police department, these numbers are much more than numbers. I’ve put the bodies in the bags, I’ve held the hands of the grieving families, I’ve held the children of the grieving families, this is more than a political stand and far more than a political statement,” said Bryant. “This is not a power play, this is not fear tactics, the truth is if we do not have 5-stations we cannot respond effectively to the families of this district. It cannot happen. I’ve been accused of using fear tactics to get this information across. It’s the truth and it’s scary. But it’s true and it’s real.”
He explained how it’s a moral obligation and moral duty to do what they can to be educated about what reality is. He stated how the District has to go to the majority of the people who have not been made aware of the problems the District has faced. He says we have to get to the public so they can make an educated choice to do without fire services.
“I am absolutely willing to live with you told me so, I am not willing to live with you never told me. I feel like if I don’t do my very best that the blood of each person lost is on my head and this board if we don’t do everything to educate them.” said Bryant. “If after we have done that and they still choose no in the democratic system we have, so be it, I can live with that. But we have no choice whether it be in June at $98 or whether its November with a $150 whatever that number is, I think we adequate education we haven’t reached, not regular voters, if we present them with the reality of where they are living then perhaps it will give them a reason.”
He voiced concerns that in November they will be one of many tax measures and voters could reject all tax requests at the same time.
Director Smith agreed with Bryant.
“I agreed with Bryant that people should get to vote this year, but admitted the District is behind the curve on education for a June ballot,” said Smith.
He says he did not see how they can turn it around by June. Nothing makes a difference in June do to the immovability of the polling.
Director Cooper then suggested doing its own District poll and sending out a mail piece to the entire district to get a response back from voters. Voters would then have until late February to learn about what is on the line before they make a decision at their March 3 meeting.
“If we can get enough response back from the community that supports a June election, I would support moving forward in June,” said Cooper. “If those numbers are not met, I won’t support a June election.”
Director Johansen stated he was supportive of the suggestion
“I don’t want to make this my decision to close any firehouse. If we move to November we have no chance to keep those stations open and there will be a gap of poor services,” said Johansen. “I am fearful someone can die because of that decision and someone could lose their home.”
He suggested it’s the public decision to close the stations.
“I will never agree to closing stations. That is a decision that the public will have to make. Right now I am for a June election, but I am willing to concede that our public response is such that no matter what we do in June it’s not going to work or make a difference, then I may respond differently,” said Johansen. “My concern is that we have been telling the public for some time that we are in a fiscal crisis and I don’t want to let those in the community say oh look they are going to move it back to November and the crisis isn’t what they said it was.”
Chief Henderson stated that he has some concerns about bringing it back by the March 3 meeting and that they are required to notice the public to make it an election decision—said they had to run parallel lines with the results. He asked the board to be prepared for the public hearing on an election.
The consultant shared that realistically with the mailing and response time that he could have it designed this week, quick approval, and out in the mail by middle of next week is as fast as they can move to give people a week to 10-days to respond and ready to move by March 3. At the same time, develop the resolution in case the Board wanted to move forward with an election.
He did warn the Board it likely wont change much from the prior polls.
“I’d be surprised if a single piece of mail bought you 13 percentage points. To get from where you are today to a successful election in June or November whenever, there is going to have to be broad based public outreach. Not 30 or so individuals that will come to a meeting, but how do you get information to those commuting or getting home late or spending time with their families,” said Heath. “I would argue that this type of informational component would be important whether we go in June or November but it’s the first step to an election.”
Director Cooper stated that without June ballot, they are closing two stations down. He shared that he was interested in polling.
“We are not trying to change or influence, but curious on the response from the community and giving them the right to choose,” said Cooper.
Young asked how that is different than what the poll they already have did.
Cooper said that poll affected 300 people; we are going to go after 105,000 people.
Director Bob Kenny expressed his frustration saying he didn’t want to look like an idiot pushing something through that was not going to pass. He said he didn’t know how they could win this no matter what they do.
The Board voted to move forward with a mail out that the public can respond to about support of a June election.
36 comments
The fire board sounds confused. I feel bad for our firefighters and chief henderson.
Just so I understand this. The firefighters did a poll of 300 people and the Board dismissed it so they can do their own of the entire District?
@Jim, you are correct. The Board would like a much larger sample than 300 people.
Sounds like a cluster — to me. Listen to the consultant, they are the professional, not an appointed Board.
Thank you Joel Bryant and Greg Cooper and the Board for fighting to keep open stations. Our firefighters need every chance to be abel to continue to serve. I applaud your effort and believe you are doing what is right. Follow your hearts. We should support them and fight to keep 5 stations open.
Karen, It appears you are applauding the wrong people. Their “plan” results in disaster for the district and permanent laying off of firefighters. The fire chief spelled it out very well while the rest of the board comes across as 9 blind men describing an elephant.
Fighting for something is one thing, being a martyr in a losing battle is another.
Cluster **** or Selective memories? They previously already “agreed” to close fire stations! Did they conveniently forget they closed stations in Byron, Knightsen, Bethel Island, Discovery Bay and Brentwood? What made that process any different?
Hypocrites. No vote means NO. Stop wasting OUR money.
Firefighters union does a poll to see if they can get support to pass a parcel tax.
Independent Consultant says that according to the poll (that not one person challenges) a ballot measure for a tax assessment will not pass no matter what in June and pretty much most likely not in November as well.
Board decides to ignore all the experts and try one more time to convince everyone with a mailer.
It sounds like denial on the part of the Board. I am sure it sucks to hear such news from the poll but for them to disregard the polls seems a bit irresponsible no matter how much it is going to hurt.
My question is IF this new mailer goes out and gets back some really positive feedback does that mean they are going to disregard the polling numbers and go for it in June or November?
My other question is who is going to pay for this campaign if it gets put on the ballot? Will the Fire Board pay for it? It seems to me they aren’t allowed to. If they aren’t allowed to then I would imagine it would be the fire fighter unions that would pay for it. Are they really going to invest in the couple hundred thousand it would take to help it pass when they just got told it won’t pass?
Has the Fire Board asked that question?
As a tax payer I really don’t want them spending the money on a mailer when the cost could be the equivalent of a firefighter or two’s salary. It sounds as if we need to hunker down and wait for things to get so uncomfortable and outrageous that people start to care. That pisses me off because that means someone or many someones might die or people will start losing their homes to fires because there just isn’t responders to help.
NO NEW TAXES from people who have no more to give. More tax money would only be a band-aid fix anyway. Do like we all should do and work within your budget.
Just for clarification the district is not completing a second poll. Some board members are very concerned that the communities at large are not informed on the current situation facing the district. In an opportunity to ensure all residents of the ECCFPD have been informed and have had an opportunity to provide input we as a board opted to send out one mail piece. The reality is the district will make its final decision, on whether to move forward or not, at the March 3rd board meeting based on the responses of those living in the district. The board has not dismissed the polling paid for by the firefighters but holds to the results brought forward last night and unless there is a significantly positive response from those residing within the district, moving forward with an election will not make much sense. The bottom line is the district at large has a choice between the parcel tax of $98 to maintain current services or the closure of 2 stations. At a minimum the board feels it has the responsibility of ensuring everyone living in the district is informed on the choice at hand.
Um, Greg, you do realize you just said “Just for clarification, the district is not completing a second poll” .
You then spent the remainder of your post describing the board’s intent & action, which is a poll.
If it walks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck…..
It sounds to me like working within the budget means going down to 3 stations and maybe even 2. That is actually acceptable to you? I think that you are kidding yourself if you think it is. What happens when your house burns and there is nobody to go in and rescue you or your family? It sounds to me like the board is trying to see if they can muster any support with a mailer before a decision is made to move forward in June. If you think a mailer costs a firefighters salary then maybe you need to educate yourself a bit more.
Still waiting to see if someone is coming up with a constructive solution..I don’t have one other than what has been presented by the board. Do any of the complainers have one?
We (the public) will make our choice and we will have to live with it. We can blame all we want but that will not fix the problem. Good luck to us if we only have 2 operating fire stations in the future. That will only end in a sad situation and we truly will have nobody to blame but ourselves(Though the complainers will try to blame others)
David,
Since you asked….
Let’s ask the County to more fully fund the EMS being provided by our firefighter. The law doesn’t allow the County to fund fire services, but EMS is well within the County’s right (and duty) to fund.
Let’s ask if any retired firefighters will volunteer or do POC time for the benefit of their community.
Let’s work with the. County to shift some of the workload from our firefighters over to ambulances, QRVs, and other ALS providers. It is less expensive and frees up firefights to protect our neighbors’ homes from fire loss.
Let’s reopen closed fire stations and rent them to the County to use as bases for EMS providers and life saving training to include the public being certified in CPR and the use of defibrillators.
Let’s share, without embarrassment or reluctance, the actual pension funding situation that our district faces so that the public isn’t left to either believe, guess or ignore the comments made on message boards.
Let’s not be guided by the vision of the strongest, most comprehensive fire district that can do everything according to standards set by Unions and not met in over 90% of the nation.
Let’s not ever provide a lower level of service than we are able and promote the idea of closing more stations just to cause the public pain (death?) in hopes of winning an election.
Let’s stop assuming and proclaiming that people who don’t agree with us are childish, willfulling ignorant, or a plaything of either the CCT or the Devil. Whatever one’s position is, it is easier to persuade through civility.
Let’s vote Yes in June and not stop improving the district until we have given our firefights a raise that we can afford by seriously considering options such as these and others I have seen mentioned.
@Yes vote- Don, the correct spelling is “willfully ignorant” and yes, it does describe you to a tee.
So let’s NOT misuse public funds by taking EMS money and using it for fire suppression. The District already receives Measure H monies to offset those costs. If you’re not sure the actual costs associated with that value added service, just leave the engines in stations on medical calls and let us know how much money you saved the District. If it exceeds even $50k(mostly via fuel savings) it would be a surprise
Let’s NOT push services onto AMR which they have told you repeatedly they are not equipped to handle.
Let’s NOT bullsheet the public further by claiming AMR is a cheaper option when AMR Reps have repeatedly stated they are not.
Lets’ NOT put 60 yr old retired fire fighters into POC positions trying to relive their glory days. Only to find out 5 years down the road we have created a small army of workman’s comp and permanent disability claims that burden the District financially because we allowed people entirely too old for the task to attempt it.
Let’s NOT continue to perpetuate this lie that ECCFPD fire fighters are overpaid when they make the equivalent of $20/yr while contributing 1/4 of that to funding their pensions and benefits.
Let’s NOT spend the money to reopen shuttered stations for AMR personnel when they have AGAIN stated that does not work for them or the model that exists in Contra Costa County. If they don’t want it and it’s not a money saver, why are you trying to jam it down their throats just to emphasize your ignorance?
Let’s NOT continue to patronize the fire fighters with comments from cowardly individuals who don’t have the stones to show themselves at a public fire board meetings, but instead try to offer expertise and know how they don’t possess through blog posts.
Presenting yourself as being supportive of the fire fighters in one sentence and then implying in the next that you basically intend to take their pensions from them is disingenuous, at best. I was going to go with “a scumbag tactic”, but you requested civility. Consider it granted.
Step up and show up, Don. The schtick here isn’t credible for even a second.
Is the “equivalent of $20/yr while contributing 1/4 of that to funding their pensions and benefits” what they mean on this site http://transparentcalifornia.com/salaries/search/?q=james+mathers
when I do a search for some of the ECCFPD employees? This dude makes more than I do. Not saying he don’t deserve it, I’m sure he does, and I’d like to increase it if given that opportunity, and give him more people to work with. However, I’m not sure what you bring to the argument if you change the facts into obvious lies.
Jim has been there awhile. He’s topped out an Engineer rate at a little below $60k. What’s your point? Lemme guess, you pulled a Borenstein and are going to quote the fully loaded number like that’s what he makes. Am I right?
You do know they work 56 hour weeks, right? You do own a calculator or could do a simple math multiplier? You do know what the starting rate is?
Now if you’re like most CoCoTax drones, you just look at a single number. It’s all your brain can process. You think what’s on your paycheck is what you cost your company. You can’t master the concept of 15% payroll taxes, 401k matches and benefits packages and how they add to your total cost to your company.
Nope, you play the CCTimes Editor Stooge game of comparing base salary in the private sector to fully loaded costs in the public sector. Not directly now. No, that would be too obvious. You just mention the comparisons at different points in your biweekly hit pieces to provide yourself some cover. Deliberately skew the comparison of public to private. It’s the way he rolls.
You want to talk about lies, keep posting. Or you could really humor us and tell us what you _think_ you make at your gig.
While I won’t vote for this current proposed tax, until EVERYONE gets behind a solid plan…..I did a little homework today.
Our East county Firefighters are grossly underpaid!!!
Contra Costa Fire (Base Salary):
http://www.mercurynews.com/salaries/bay-area/2012?appSession=17144648135315&RecordID=&PageID=2&PrevPageID=2&CPIpage=2&cbJumpTo=1
Battalion Chief 145k
Fire Captain 109k
Engineer 97k
Firefighter 96k
Alameda County Fire (Base Salary):
http://www.mercurynews.com/salaries/bay-area/2012?appSession=52144648447682&RecordID=&PageID=2&PrevPageID=2&CPIpage=2&cbJumpTo=1
Battalion Chief 146k
Fire Captain 116k
Engineer 103k
Firefighter 95k
And bringing up the rear……….
East County Fire (Base Salary)
http://www.mercurynews.com/salaries/bay-area/2012?appSession=83244649924221&RecordID=&PageID=2&PrevPageID=2&CPIpage=2&cbJumpTo=1
Battalion Chief 88k
Fire Captain 60k
Engineer 57k
Firefighter 54k
David, since you asked….
Let’s seek funds from the County for all the EMS services our fire district provides on their behalf to their constituents and tax payers. The. County is legally permitted to provide funds to compensate for EMS, but not fire services.
Let’s not berate residents who feel they don’t have money for tax increases and give complete passes to the County when they say they have no money to help. Maybe a shared response is in order.
Let’s get more ambulances and QRVs out here to offset the EMS load on the fire district. Those service providers are able to bill customers/patients for services and therefor don’t need to charge the County.
Let’s reopen stations that are closed and allow the QRVs and ambulances to rent them as a base for service.
Let’s ask retired firefighters in our district if they want to help out as volunteers.
And mark me down as a yes vote for the June measure.
“Yes vote”, thanks for your BS pep talk. Let’s ask if the tooth fairy can help us out! You have quite the active imagination. Have you had any luck with that outside of grade school? I don’t know who is worse, you or ecvsbrother. Put me down for a NO vote which by the way deletes your yes vote *and makes another yes vote necessary just to get to 66 percent. Maybe you can figure out how to vote twice? You do vote, right, or is unadulterated fantasy your thing?
Be warned- the voices in your head don’t count as voters.
The District has several choices that have been suggested and all ignored. What’s worse is when I read quotes by David Piepho about how he knew for 14 years about the train wreck it makes me sick. Did he share that with his wife Supervisor Mary Piepho? The train was driven by the Supervisors for all those years but two. Maybe Mr. Piepho with all his knowledge of government should be on the ECCFPD board. We could use his help to stop this train wreck. Being a firefighter for so many years, a LAFCO Commissioner, and Director of a CSD he would understand the needs and ways to create new revenue. Maybe the Supervisors can approve another 600 homes for DB, Brentwood another couple hundred, and Oakley several hundred more all knowing they are endangering the level of fire service more and more. When the ECCFPD shuts down the last Discovery Bay Station because the two cities have the controlling vote and more development is approved in Discovery Bay he may step up and help the Fire District. They do not have stipends to take so that should not be an issue. What happens to the $125,000 and other money spent if the district does not put the measure on the ballot? This entire situation is shameful. No tax will fix this mess because of politics period.
“ECVsBrother”,,,
Tap tap tap, your ignorance, stupidity and moreover your jealousy is showing. You might want to tuck that back in!
You are such a tool! What’s wrong, still can’t get past being bested by everyone and their brother? Hahahaha!
John Gonzalez, please go away, Far, far away from this issue. You bring nothing to the table for solutions. You do nothing but antagonize people trying to work through this while all you want to do is devolve this District so you can relive your glory days as an ineffective Fire Commissioner.
Your “ideas” can be summarized in two.
You want to go back to the ineffective POC program. Ineffective is not debatable here. Multiple reports exist which explain the shortcomings. The Chief himself can explain multiple instances where POCs were no-shows and ConFire had to roll engines to cover. That “maybe” mentality and readiness does not work in the 21st Century. Period. The lowered state of readiness is not acceptable nor is the higher degree of risk.
Your second is to put all costs on anyone and everyone but you. You have decided in your mind that some magical date in time that YOU picked should become a demarc point. All people who moved here prior(you too are a transplant) will get to skate with the half price rate they contribute to fire. While all others who moved here after the date that YOU picked are then expected to pay 4x, 5x or more. You have been reminded again and again and again that all new residents pay the same 1% in prop taxes that you do and therefore contribute as equally as you. But somehow you have determined you are special.
Your “plan” does not make mathematical sense, beyond being immoral. Your logic is that “those people” ruined YOUR fire district. Well the simple mathematical fact is, John, that if you remove all that new construction that you have an issue with, your remaining aggregate contributions will not be sufficient to maintain a 3 station model and it’s questionable at 2014 costs whether it could even maintain a 2 station model.
Professional fire fighters apply for jobs and are hired via an agreement for services and compensation to be paid. You rant that $20/hr they get paid is excessive or that Unions are evil. It shows your ignorance. The rise and now the fall of the middle class in America is parallel to the rise and the fall of Unions in this Country. But you’re too slow to have figured that out. In effect, your rants are an attack on the middle class and middle class wages. Show me one comparable profession in the private sector that pays $20/hr and REQUIRES the employee to contribute a full 25% of that salary to their pension and benefits. Just one, John,
The Union has taken major concessions, given up raises for a several year stretch, taken pay cuts, added to their contribution rates and what has Citizen Johnny Gonzalez during that time as his contribution to resolving this shortfall? Nothing but whine.
It disgusts me that well down the line and after the fact that you want to renege on a contract that was given to these hard working individuals. I wouldn’t get within a mile of people like you on a business deal because it’s clear your word means nothing.
You pay a pittance of your property taxes to this District in support of its operation. You are one of the few who chime in on this issue who were in a position to have fixed that funding problem. So what action did you take, John? Did you just sit on your hands? Just hung around so you could look good sitting in the big Fire Commissioner seat at the meetings?
You have no solutions to offer. Modern societies evolve so they can thrive. They don’t go backwards to ineffective methods, which is EXACTLY what you propose this District do with your longing for return to POCs.
There are obvious reasons your communications with the Chief and the District go ignored if you just open your eyes.
Please go away. Far, far away from this issue. You have nothing to offer in terms of meaningful, effective and long lasting solutions.
Mr. Cooper,
The firefighters did a poll and now you are doing another one so I disagree, its 2 polls. In case you and other board members hvae a case of Amnesia, the public already was aware of the districts issue and did have a say last year and decided we didn’t like your solutions and now you are bringing the same game plan back which does not include real savings or solutions except to ask for more money.
I’m thinking it is two polls also, but this time it appears they are asking for less money. That doesn’t make much sense. I am going with no on this one-it’s a non starter and I wont allow them to use my money so that they won’t feel responsible for the mess.
JohnnyG, see there’s your problem. While most of the rest of us were voting in 2012 on a 7 station w/ALS model, you didn’t vote until last year and you voted on a 5 station model. Since you just claimed they are bringing forward the same model again.
The fire fighters in this District make about $20/hr. They are REQUIRED to put 25% of that to their pensions and benefits every month. Show me one private sector comparable position with that low pay and high contribution requirement. Just one.
So how much is Johnny the Leach from Knightsin(sic) expecting them to give up over and above that so he can once again skate?
Lance,
I was emailed of your comment here. After reading all the above comments it appears the childish behavior has begun again. I would expect some of the comments because they read childish. I would not expect such a comment from what is supposed to be a professional firefighter. I hope your words are not done as a representative of the fire district where if directed to me or any other citizen. Most all the comments above seem to be negative when the ECCFPD needs to gain support and trust not alienate. If you are not the Lance that is a firefighter for the ECCFPD then disregard my comment as the source would not be credible.The other few negative comments do not deserve a response as they are juvenile at best.
John A Gonzales
Knightsen
Your comments are disingenuous to say the least. Enough with the pity party and the overused “dog ate my homework” excuse; aka; “I was emailed of your comment here”. What a joke, do you really expect anyone to believe you?
You are nothing more that someone who wants to be important….A fireman wannabe and a local media troll. Keep chasing that dream.
As for childish? Yeah right…. Many of us are aware that you wrote the book on tantrums. How dare you come across with an attempt at a condescending remark towards our firefighters.
I know you well and I am happy to agree with the other commenter.
Go pound sand.
I guess that says that and I couldn’t agree more except for my comments of course.
What kind of lonely fool are you Clueless? Twenty $20 dollars and hour? Really? Are you that stupid? Thanks Righteous in the Wood for putting a link to the real story. If they make $20 dollars an hour how do you get to these numbers of pay?
Benefits
$88,125.24 $32,354.70 $11,725.68 $91,416.23 $223,621.85
$88,125.24 $29,687.80 $9,467.52 $94,963.96 $222,244.52
$88,125.24 $16,432.69 $7,209.36 $92,871.08 $204,638.37
$43,807.98 $ 3,520.26 $0.00 $27,683.3 $75,011.55
This is 2012 salary info. The last dollar amount is an administrative assistant.
Base pay Overtime Other pay TOTAL BENEFITS TOTAL Compensation
Look for yourself fool http://transparentcalifornia.com/salaries/search/?q=james+mathers
Between you, my brother, and “In the Idiot” you must think the public is really stupid and believe any of your B.S,
I read the CC Times today and see another brilliant comment by our County Supervisors Husband
Davis Piepho. Quote: “Suggested to close stations right now” ‘ Let the public feel what its like”
( Contra Costa Times Page B2 under Fire ,Todays Date )
Now that makes me really trust the government,
I take back my recommendation to support for David Piepho for ECCFPD board. I’d rather have David Villareal, He shows sincerity and concern.
Perusing ECVSBrother comment on such a serious issue, one has to wonder whether he suffers a severe mental impediment or simply offers up misleading propaganda in some sick attempt to get his rocks off?
Unfortunately for ECVSBrother (and Righteous in the ‘Wood), most readers probably drew quite a different conclusion from the exchange.
Buy A Clue asserted that firefighters were low in pay (hourly rate of $20.00 hr.), minus ¼ of that paid into to retirement and benefits. It doesn’t take much math skill to see that equates to $15.00 hr.
Following up, Righteous in the ‘Wood” offered up a link (which I followed) to demonstrate the actual pay of a firefighter in the EECFPD has a base salary of $57,081.24.
What “Righteous” failed to account for was the extended hourly schedule that firefighters must work; 24hrs/56hr week which equates to over 2,900hrs/yr a year compared to 2,000hrs/yr. that a typical 40 hour employee would work. Additionally one must also factor in, firefighters do not get holidays off like typical 40hr employees.
This brings us back around to Buy A Clues original figure of $20.00 hr. Was it correct or not? Since math doesn’t lie; Salary: 57,087.24 divided by the 2,912 hrs. worked in a year yields; $19.60 per hour. He got it right.
The end result is that Buy a Clue provided an accurate figure while ECVSBrother apparently isn’t very good at math. It was additionally pointed out that the firefighters must pay 25 percent of their wage into retirement and benefits which in turn lowers the hr./wage down to a take-home rate of $14.70.
ECVBrother concluded with a rant about a CC Times article and his trust issues but did not provide a direct link which made me suspicious about his “sincerity and concern”. I was able to find the article and as I read it I realized ECVSBrother was playing with quotes in a less than truthful depiction. http://www.contracostatimes.com/contra-costa-times/ci_25058082/survey-results-might-upend-east-contra-costa-fire?IADID=Search-www.contracostatimes.com-www.contracostatimes.com
Please read it for yourself. If ECVSBrother has trust issues, then he should begin with the man in the mirror.
I’m grateful to ECVSBrother and Righteous for pointing out that while they may not be astute at the little things like math, sentence structure or a fair portrayal of facts, they do provide us with links so that we may do our own research and form a proper opinion.
@Righteous in the wood…
Please note that a firefighter does not work 40 hours per week, they work 56. So therefore, take 56 hrs x 52 weeks = 2912.
Knowing that, take the employees $57,000 pay and divide by 2912. That is the true hourly rate which equals $19.57 an hour.
Keep in mind, the person you are referring to, is an Engineer, which is a level above a firefighter. So technically, a firefighter makes less.
Based on what you say ECT, that is not enough money. I look more at the total costs to the people. But $20 is not enough even if it is net pay. I guess a lot of overtime is the only way to survive. Maybe the benefits should be given directly to the firefighter to double that number and a different pension plan chosen. It still is hard to believe that any make only $20 when the website shows so much. I still think clueless and in the idiot are sorry excuses for human beings.
Awww, Johnny, does that mean I’m off the Xmas card list now?
I’m getting wackadoodle whiplash here. First you’re sure the math is wrong and everyone who supplied it are “sorry excuses for human beings”, while you go for the D-Bag Borenstein move with the fully loaded citation. Now two hours later you’re saying we should give all that directly to the fire fighters??!!
Dude, you really gotta cut back on the crazy sauce with dinner.
BaC, it’s obvious your copy-and-paste buddy there doesn’t have any idea what the numbers mean. That’s why he’s bouncing off the walls.
The Court giving that data to these Howard Jarvis shills is about as smart as giving a loaded gun to a 3 year old. Both ideas end badly with innocent people getting hurt.
@ECVBrother,
Another way to look at it if you want to include overtime. To get to his additional $28,000. He is working an additional 933 hours per year in overtime ($20 x1.5 pay = $30 an hour). That obviously is a choice, but its not like the engineer isn’t working. Sometimes its also mandatory overtime.
It is clear by all the posts and blogs related to the Fire issue in Contra Costa County, that there is not enough community support to pass a parcel tax for any amount. It is very disappointing and does create a challenge for us firefighters and those who govern them. As one who represents 6 different agencies I can assure you that all departments are not the same and don’t have the same problems. I represent two city departments that are funded by the city’s General fund. This means they divide the money that the city collects and decide where to spend the money. In a city the money is divided for police, fire, public works, and recreation and community projects. If the city is short on revenue, they can decide to go out for a sales tax increase, a utility tax, or a special tax for a specific issue. They have the luxury of getting additional revenue and deciding how to spend it. Other Districts like a Water District or Sanitation District have the ability to go for a parcel tax or simply raise the rates they charge their customers. Unfortunately as a Fire District they don’t charge a fee for service except for plan checks or permits. The revenue from these services makes up less than 10% off the revenue so have minimal impact on the budget. Because the property tax portion dedicated to go to the fire district can’t be adjusted due to prop 13 law, it leaves a parcel tax as the only choice to increase revenue. The rates were set back in 1978. A lot has changed on how fire and emergency services are delivered. Our equipment has changed, we provide more services, we are much more technical and have more technical skills, we have improved and more complicated communications, GPS and mapping systems, updated 911 systems; we have and require, a higher level of training since 1978. The capabilities of our equipment and personnel have improved significantly. We are not the fire departments of the 70’s. The cost for Cable, fuel, PG&E, water, sanitation, education, cell phones, food, and all other services have quadrupled. Why is there an expectation that Fire Service cost never go up? In the case of East County, they have started off underfunded and have fire tax rates that are unbelievably low.
I believe it is time to consider dissolving the East Contra Costa Fire Protection District. The concept of the District is great because it allows everyone to contribute to the service without having sole responsibility for it. It doesn’t work in East County. Brentwood and Oakley have a legal obligation to provide fire service while the county doesn’t. Give the responsibility for fire protection to the individual agencies. Trying to combine the Knightsen or Bethel Island culture with that of Brentwood, Discovery Bay or Oakley, is counterproductive. Dissolve the District and let each community decide what they want instead of trying to combine the different cultures. It has been a 12 year bad marriage. Divorce based on irreconcilable differences.
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