At 7:18 pm Wednesday, the East Contra Costa Fire Protection District responded to the 1440 block of Sugar Barge Road on Bethel Island for a report of a vegetation fire.
Battalion Chief 5 was first on scene and located approximately 2 acres of vegetation on fire and reported several motor homes and mobile homes threatened. He also noted several residents were attempting to put out the fire using a hose line directly off a hydrant without a nozzle.
Upon arrival, Engine 93 cut through a chain link fence and began progressive fire attack and were able to prevent the vegetation fire from spreading, however, there was a large pile of tree trimmings and compost piles that were on fire.
According to Jeff Burris, Battalion Chief, the damage was limited to two acres of grass and trees, however, several bystanders complained of smoke inhalation, but were no longer at scene upon AMR arrival. Another bystander received a laceration to his ear when the three inch hose line became unmanageable. The bystander refused treatment and walked away.
The District said that the fire started in a mulch pile near a pile of ash, however, they were unable to find the cause or point of origin.
39 comments
the bystanders were b.i. volunteer fire fighters… bahaha
“Several bystanders complained of smoke inhalation, but were no longer at scene upon AMR arrival. Another bystander received a laceration to his ear when the three inch hose line became unmanageable.”
Bystanders? You mean people who grabbed garden hoses and held the fire back from RVs and Motorhomes, while the fire department took over 20 minutes to arrive???
Every “bystander” was still standing around when AMS arrived. No one approached any of us about smoke inhalation. And lacerations from an out of control fire hose? No, the dudes ear was blistered and charred from the heat from the fire. Pardon my French, but that Battalion Chief is a jackass.
Sure glad 93 made it.
Good way to get someone killed. This demonstrates exactly why only people trained in firefighting should be using fire equipment and fire hydrants. They are lucky they didn’t turn a minor fire into a major medical emergency.
The business end of a charged 3″ hose is nothing to mess with.
Stupid should hurt. Lucky no one was killed.
Johnny Firefighter,
If it wasn’t for the people who saw the fire right after it started to jump in and help hose down the fire and other dry areas before the fire dept finally got there 30 minutes after this fire almost assuredly would have spread and the many many motor homes would have been destroyed. It was shocking how long it took the fire dept to get there. I saw numerous men and women work together to slow down this fire which could have been a massive disaster with out their help. So shout out to all who help for the 30 plus minuets before the fire dept finally got there.
30 minutes? Was listening to the scanner as it came in, it took then less than 10 to get on scene.
These people, right or wrong we’re trying to put out this fire. They know our district needs help. Give them a break johnnie fire putter putter. Least they tried.
“Several bystanders complained of smoke inhalation, but were no longer at scene upon AMR arrival. Another bystander received a laceration to his ear when the three inch hose line became unmanageable.”
Bystanders? You mean people who grabbed garden hoses and held the fire back from RVs and Motorhomes, while the fire department took over 20 minutes to arrive??? And lacerations from an out of control fire hose? No, the dudes ear was blistered and charred from the heat from the fire. Pardon my French, but that Battalion Chief is a jackass.
If the “bystanders” hadn’t intervened, the fire would have likely spread to an RV that was only feet away. THEN the whole place would have been a disaster.
No, not bystanders. Bystanders simply stand by, and watch. These “individuals” got in over their heads-plain and simple. They had NO business hooking anything to a fire hydrant which could have impeded the fire department and our firefighters. From all accounts it was a 3″ fire hose, NOT a garden hose. No matter what hose was used, the story reports it was attached to a fire hydrant. Not cool and definitely NOT legal. First count is called “theft of a utility” for starters. Second count is interfering with emergency scene operations. Both punishable by law. Many fire agencies would not tolerate anyone tampering or utilizing a fire hydrant and would turn it over to local law enforcement immediately. This isn’t a game and this isn’t 1970; there is serious liability to those actions as someone could get hurt and in this case apparently someone did.
There is no justification. The fire department responded appropriately, (not 30 minutes and not 20 minutes) and the actions of a few could have further hindered our first responders. Had the “bystanders” gotten seriously injured, the first responding unit would have had further delay as it would have treated the medical emergency in a real world situation. Thus taking the first engine company out of service would have had serious consequences. Like it or not, It’s how it works.
Firefighters are trained to work together and deal with emergencies-they do it every day. The wild card here was a few well intentioned “bystanders” could have turned a routine fire into a more serious situation. Ordinary people are not trained in fireground operations during its exactly how it played out. This isn’t Hollywood and this isn’t the Wild West; it’s why we have trained professionals with protective gear doing the job.
A homeowner defending his own property with his (or her) own garden hose is one thing, connecting a 3″ open butt hose directly to a 500-1,000 GPM fire hydrant is another. That’s just stupid.
The Battalion Chief got it right. Lucky for the “bystanders” he & the fire department isn’t pressing charges. Our police department/law enforcement needs help too, but most citizens are smart enough not to play cop or take the law into their own hands. Apparently these bystanders didn’t get the memo.
The District needs help, but not self appointed victims.
I doubt they will be getting any awards unless the Darwin Award is on the table. Nextime they may not be so lucky.
‘Nuff said.
The people who tried to help, and DID help, are way more useful than Johnny Keyboard Warrior. This fire was not minor, and it is thanks to those who helped that this wasn’t far, far worse.
With all due respect to firefighters, putting out a fire is not rocket science. It’s not like performing surgery like a surgeon – where years of med school is a requirement.
Get real.
Nick, Nick, Nick. There it is! Classic assumption. It actually is Science, specifically, Fire Science. With all due respect, the Neanderthal thinking that firefighting doesn’t require technical skills went out the window in the 70’s (almost 50 years ago). In this day and age, becoming a firefighter takes a college degree, medical training, physical and psychological evaluations and years of ongoing training. In many ways, the qualifications of a medical professional or legal professional pale in comparison. Go to law school, you are guaranteed to get a job as a lawyer. Go to medical school, you are guaranteed to get a job in the medical profession. Go through fire training, college, Haz Mat/Chemistry, EMT or Paramedic training and your odds of getting hired as a firefighter are still slim and none. There is a reason every Tom, Dick or Harriet doesn’t get to play firefighter.
Next time you run across a Doctor or Surgeon, ask him or her how long it took to acquire a job. Then ask your neighborhood firefighter how long it took to have the qualifications and actually get employed. Your assumptions will likely end there. It’s roughly the same only in many cases the firefighter candidate never makes the cut. That’s just the tip of the iceberg.
Firefighters must continue their education each and every year of employment. The required hours are staggering, the training rigorous. Certifications must be maintained and failure is not an option. Unlike a Surgeon, your clients life is not the only life at risk.
There is a reason many surgeons and doctors work into their 60’s and 70’s and there are just as many reasons why firefighters don’t.
It isn’t rocket science yet most people haven’t a clue. Maybe we should consider having our Doctors and Surgeons be volunteers. After all, the qualifications and opportunities are not as hard to obtain as that of your local firefighter. Anyone can go to school, for years, but the situation changes the day you enter the real world of either career. You really have no clue about “requirements”. If you don’t believe me, ask a firefighter, or try Google. The answers are not that elusive, but not at all what you assumed.
This is all part of why “volunteer firefighters” are a dying breed (literally). Most intelligent people have figured out that it doesn’t make sense in today’s world, especially in urban areas.
You wanted to get real? Try it sometime. Reality is a real equalizer.
You need anger management. Please change your attitude.
Melanie, Anger management? Now that’s funny. How did you read that into my statement? My post was not directed at you it was at Nick who ended his rant with “get real”. It did and apparently you can’t appreciate reality. Your issue isn’t with me, it is with the facts.
Please open your eyes.
Have a nice day.
Your lack of accurate information makes you appear to be unintelligent you really should know the facts before you make comments and statements nuff said
I Sure As Hell Hope Johnny Firefighter is NOT ON OUR Fire Department as a FIREFIGHTER. …Your Attitude Sucks! An attitude like that is why my friends house burned to the ground here on the island. They were threatened to put the hose down or go to jail! In case you are UNAWARE our current Fire Department has a Rating of a “10”! A 10! The WORST Rating! I have seen far too many houses burn to the ground here on the island. And all the money in the world won’t improve their service. Grant money and opened stations for a short period of time didn’t help the rating during that time. Just more wasted money that accomplished nothing! Didn’t our chief just inform the public on how they were going to put out a fire which was more like control the burn til the structure is no longer a threat to neighboring structures! I have more faith in the neighbors and volunteers to put out a fire than our fire department. The Island will stand together and if the fire department wants to waste time threatening to press charges the Island will Press Back! My faith in our Fire Department is a Big Fat ZERO! And Johnny Firefighter IF You are a member of our Fire department YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM with THAT Attitude!
Island Resident, you just don’t get it. (Go figure). You have no appreciation for our fire department or it’s firefighters. That makes you a large part of the problem. As for me, no I wouldn’t and couldn’t afford to be a member of the fire department. These guys risk their lives for unappreciative people like you, for about the same wage as a cook at a local Restaurant. And speaking of attitudes don’t get me started on Bethel Island. Your reputations precede you. If you choose to live on an unincorporated “island” in then you have already made a choice, living in an area with reduced services. No one owes you especially when it comes to fire protection. Look it up, it’s also the law.
So tell us, why exactly did your friends house burn down? Who’s fault was it? Let’s begin with who started the fire? Next, what was the status of the water supply and hydrant availability? How was the call dispatched? How well is the Fire department funded, equipped and therefore staffed? Are you able to answer those questions? More importantly are or were any of them the fault of our fire department? You see it’s important in regards to your assertation that our fire department has an ISO ranking of 10. None of which is the fault or responsibility of the fire department. Last time I checked, they don’t fund themselves, provide the water source or control the vote to control funding that’s not their job nor responsibility. You would be wise to look towards the fact the department is being underfunded by citizens that don’t care until the emergency comes to their doorstep. That is after all how the voting has played out. Again, it’s how it works in the real world.
You are wrong about a few things. Additional proper funding will help the problem and improve the ISO ratings. Revenue=additional staff=additional stations=increased coverage, better outcomes, lives saved, property protected and better ISO ratings. The unseen bonus is that proper funding would better those ISO ratings which results in lower insurance premiums. Insurance companies are not stupid. They know where there losses are going to be.
Remember Nick’s surgeon comparison above? Now it may be more appropriate to actually use it in a more meaningful way. You see most people think Doctors, Surgeons and Healthcare & Insurance in general is overpriced, until they need the service. The same applies with emergency services. We get what we pay for and we are not paying much. I’ve read the comments on this subject for over a decade now. People don’t want to pay what they should for emergency services, but they are the FIRST to whine and complain when tragedy strikes-and sooner or later it always does. Funny how that works. You would have to live on an island to not see it play out. Whooops, sorry.
Glad to know that the Island will stand together pushing back: “The Island will stand together and if the fire department wants to waste time threatening to press charges the Island will Press Back! My faith in our Fire Department is a Big Fat ZERO!”. Now that’s a real example of “attitude”and abuse of your shift key.. The internet shouting is a plus, it helps me know where your coming from.
Perhaps you should take a head count and learn your rights & legal standings before making flip comments in the future. That’s a example of reality. Hope you see the irony of why it’s not working for you.
Have a nice day.
Johnny Fire DA,
You speak like a trained union puppet. What happened to the new Fire Station for The Lakes on Cypress? They are in violation of contract. What happened to downtown Byron? How long was that response? Could have taken out the entire town if it wasn’t for citizen help. These brainwashed johnny fire boys have inflated heads. That’s what costs lives. Thank God many of our Fire personnel are humble enough to accept help as a team effort in sinc with a team goal. The ego thing is just sickening. Those are the ones that need to move on.
Why is he so defensive towards the fire department? I didn’t think he was a firefighter. Something is going on, and it’s bizarre. Mental health issues?
Johnny Firefighter is a Troll! If you were on the fire department then you would know the truth. You have no clue about what you spout and just throw stuff out there to get a reaction.
Oh and CAPITALIZATION does not Always Mean Shouting if it is SELECT Words it is for Emphasizing the work just like typing in BOLD PRINT.
AND FYI Bethel Island Pays more than any other incorporated or non incorporated city. We had a fully functioning fire department on the island when we were approached to merge with the other fire departments and PROMISED that our station would never be closed. We even paid for a NEW Fire Boat to replace the one we had and were assured that they could put out the fire from the water side. Welllll Not One fire was ever put out with the boat AND the boat was NEVER even used on any island fire.
As for the house that burned to the ground. It was next to another house that caught on fire. There are videos of proof of the incompetence of the fire department.
Better look at what these firefighters out here get paid. You’d be surprised to find out you are wrong about your figures. They are not underpaid and actually make more than other firefighters in other cities like Fremont.
It is a wannabe troll. With no life. Long winded tool too. Get a life. Probably unemployed.
Ummmmm, typing in capitalized text for one word or a lot of words is shouting. Emphasizing with all caps is also shouting.
Our firemen are paid a lot less then Fremont firemen. I know people in both firedepartments.
Just as I suspected, this guy calling himself Johnny Firefighter isn’t a firefighter at all. If he had any sense of normalcy he would be embarrassed by his posts here. What a sad/wannabe person.
And huge false representation trying to get readers to believe he was a firefighter.
The good news is he isn’t a firefighter except in his own imagination!
Melanie/The Public, someone is demonstrating anger and mental issues alright…perhaps you should check with a mirror. Your replies are extremely telling and moreover, predicted. Your comments rely on a common dysfunctional tactic of “attack the messenger and ignore the message”. Just read the thread-it’s all there in black and white. No real attempt to address the issue, answer questions or deal with facts. No, that wouldn’t work for you, would it? You have no idea how shallow your responses are and no clue of how overused and ineffective your retorts are. Yawwwwn. So predictable, it’s laughable at this point. This debate has been worn out.
Nice effort trying to deflect with the “union puppet” commentary. Sorry but that dog doesn’t hunt. Our firefighters are paid close to minimum wage when you factor in their mandatory pension contribution, health care contribution and all other costs of employment. I merely pointed out that they are pressed to the limit when adding in an inappreciative community that thinks they know better. News flash, you don’t. You may not be aware of that fact but they are and it’s insulting.
Clearly you know nothing about the issues you are raising, especially when it comes to the Summer Lakes development (Shea development) or what you erroneously referred to as “Lakes on Cypress”. Once again you are completely off base and devoid of facts and big on (false) accusation. That’s bizarre. The truth is the fire department has virtually nothing to do with that deal, (psssst, it’s between the city of Oakley and Shea homes) and furthermore the Fire department doesn’t have staffing to occupy the station making its construction a moot point. We already have enough vacant firehouses that are being vandalized (something that is being kept out of the public eye). Constructing a fire station that has no means for staffing only creates a liability, it offers no protection. But you strike me as being hung up on diversionary issues, so I’m really not surprised. You wanted to bring up Byron? Another unincorporated place that isn’t a town and doesn’t really have a “downtown” per se. Great timing since that station was gutted and robbed of everything down to the copper wires in the walls. This is what happens when the community doesn’t support adequate funding, expects service and is surprised when vacant buildings are vandalized.
It’s painfully clear that well intentioned or not, bystanders are not part of the team effort or in sync with a team goal when it comes to fire ground operations. I’m not quite sure who you are trying to convince but continuing to do so draws in question your mental status to those that know the law, the profession and understand the implications. The statistics as well as positions of industry professionals fall to my assertations-not yours. Yet you want to question my status? I think you make yourself look unhinged or at the least, desperate. You have a difficult time assembling a coherent post, so I actually don’t expect any rational position from you going forward. Prove me wrong.
Yep, someone is pretty slow on the uptake, doesn’t deal with facts and would rather rely on hearsay, false information and shoot from the hip. If you feel that is an effective position for you, then I wish you the best with that. As they say, “ignorance is bliss” and you have proved that unequivocally.
Normally I would expect some juvenile name calling, but alas, you have already played that card (“Trained union puppet”, “Johnny Firefighter DA”, “Brainwashed Johnny Fire Boy”). Debating with you is like arguing with a child and continuing would be useless. Your mind is made up and you don’t want to be confused with facts. Best of luck to you, trust me, you will need it.
***Sorry to disappoint you but this post really wasn’t meant for you (another common tactic in this east county fire debate). I wonder if you have figured that out yet or are you intent on providing more opportunities for facts to be presented at your expense? I don’t mind being called names if you don’t mind being exposed as ignorant. If so, carry on.
It is obvious that Johnny Firefighter is unfamiliar with the area, the history that led to the demise of our local fire department and with the “hydrant” that was being used. It is also apparent that he is responding solely based on the information provided in this article. And, from the viewpoint of a union fireman. So, understanding those limitations, I can be forgiving of his comments. So, here are some facts: the “hydrant” to which the hose was attached is not a traditional fire hydrant, not is it attached to a traditional water utility that could support the minimum 500gpm volume. The local volunteers are trained in the fire suppression techniques used to battle the majority of fires that are common to our area. The death of our local fire department is tied to the imposition of EMS functions with fire and the subsequent conversion from a POC to professional and union force. The majority of service calls are medical rather than fire. Medical personel have a different skill/knowledge set than someone that is solely trained in fire fighting, and now many professional fire fighters are trained in both. This has inflated the cost of fire protection to the point that small communities can not afford to provide the combined service.
So, our community is going back to its roots, and starting a group of volunteer fire fighting first responders, intent on minimizing loss, clearing the scene of obstructions that seem to frighten the professionals, and informing the professional teams, when they finally arrive, of the location of the hydrants which can support their professional equipment.
Hopefully, more young, able-bodied islanders will have the desire to volunteer and expand the ability of the first responders to the rest of the island. And, maybe someday soon, will be able to officially restore the local volunteer and POC supported Bethel Island Fire Department.
I think it’s time for the public to protect itself. Obviously the fire union boys are in over their heads. To expensive, to unionized, and not in touch with the public. It’s time for the union to give a little and embrace the public safety instead of threats for helping. If not, roll up your hoses and go home. Especially if you feel In & Out pays more. It’s been too long that BI has been left in the cold.
Careful what you ask for, I am sure the Fire District, as well as the rest of East County would love to stop responding to calls on Bethel Island and focus on higher density areas while island residents protect themselves.
It is that attitude and lack of obeying the LAFCO documents that have put east county in this dangerous position. Very sad.
Johnny, you sound dangerous, and I am not kidding. Like you want to teach people a lesson.
I know you think you are helping your “cause” but you are doing the perfect opposite of that.
So you wanted to be a firefighter but it didn’t work out. There’s a whole big country and world of other opportunities out there. Everyone has setbacks. We ALL have them in one way or another. Having faith in God helps on a big way.
You folks from Bethel Island certainly have a different view of reality. Your opinions (assumptions) could not be more inaccurate. Further, claiming that my posting of the facts is somehow “dangerous” is extremely odd. I have to wonder if you are even realizing what you are stating and just how bizarre it comes across. This puts you first in line when it concerns mental status, an irony which I am sure you don’t see yourself. That’s o.k., everyone else does and I’m not posting to pick on you islanders or “campers who were there”. You may not like the realities of local laws, and the role of the fire department, but the act of me commenting on an interactive”opinion” website, doesn’t make me a troll any more than (you) by denying reality and referring to those you disagree with, by juvenile names.
But back to the undeniable facts…
-The wages of our firefighters here in east county, are the lowest, by far in all of the bay area. This is a fact, and has been published here on this site and is available through the public records act and published in many online databases. Either look it up, or admit that you already knew this.
-The Fireboat was never a good idea and was pushed by a now retired Fire Chief. When it comes to Fires, Fireboats are largely ineffective, because they take a very well trained crew to operate them in even the best of conditions, and when it comes to structural firefighting, they are all but useless. The few times they are utilized (by much larger departments), they are used in a defensive manner. Residential and Commercial Fires are not put out from the exterior unless it is a total lost. Their main purpose is rescue which is often needed on the Delta. If someone told you it was purchased to protect homes they were not being honest.
-Bethel Island does not pay more than any other unincorporated area or incorporated city. It is public record that that honor belongs to Discovery Bay West (per capita), and the City of Brentwood (overall). Discovery Bay West contributes 19 percent of their property taxes into fire services, Bethel Island does not even come close.
Brentwood (citywide) contributes an overall amount much greater than Bethel Island. This is a fire District, therefore each area contributes different amounts based on their Tax Rate Area, a.k.a; TRA. It’s the way it works not only in East County but in all of California. You are welcome to check with the Auditor Controller to verify this, I already have. So its time for all you islanders and campers to own up to that reality.
-No one can “self appoint” a volunteer fire department. It doesn’t work that way, here or anywhere else for very good reason. If you think you or anyone on the island is going to pull off that little stunt, you are in for an eye opener. There are a multitude of reasons that just won’t happen, But if you attempt it, you will be responsible for the consequences. And yes, there are plenty of those to go around. There is no shortage of regulating agencies that will be happy to educate you directly and financially through a fining process. You see, it is another fact that there are numerous regulations currently in place that do not allow it, especially on an emergency scene. It’s not a union thing, it’s a California law thing and it’s for your safety as well as the emergency responders on the scene. Rather than wasting any more of your time on a blog, start with Cal-Osha to get some facts on the matter.
And then there is the union bashing….didn’t see that coming….# Sarcasm. You certainly have some misgivings in that regard. While I myself am not a member of any union, I am aware of the union and its role. Your safety as well as the safety of the firefighters is high on the list of their concerns. While you are doing your best to “paint” the union as evil, the fact remains that it’s actually made of up rank and file firefighters, (perhaps this is lost on you in your attempt to vilify them). You only demonstrated your low level thinking and zest to be angry at someone. The union appears to be an easy target for you based on your rants. That’s a damn shame as these individuals have names, families and have taken an oath to protect you and your property. Give that some thought before pecking out your next targeted post.
This back and forth has been helpful. It reinforces the obvious. Its really no secret- There are some on the “island” that feel they have been shorted (perhaps they have) and continue a grudge against a faceless enemy. They are angry so someone is going to pay the price-they don’t really care who, just “someone” and the fire department (and union) is a convenient target. What is short sighted is that the fire department and rest of the district is not their enemy, but “damn the torpedoes, our minds are made up, please don’t confuse us with the facts”.
Trying to proclaim your independence in a fire “district” will not have any better outcome then proclaiming that you are going to assemble a volunteer department without meeting local, county and state requirements.
Good luck to you in finding whatever it is you seek. I only hope that you can eventually open your eyes to what is possible and what is not. While I am not sure if you even have a cause, If you stay on this path, you will have a long and disappointing road ahead. Your choice.
Johnny FF your posts are dangerous because they are selective words that are meant to confuse and intimidate the average person. It is very obvious that your prospective of a fire department is that of selective ingredients to protect certain opinions. This is far from the truth and reality. You’re very first paragraph claims everyone else is juvenile yet you call yourself Johnny Firefighter. That in itself is a joke. For anyone to take you seriously sane is rare at best. The fact that our fire services are inadequate is true. However, many good suggestions for fixes have been ignored due to politics. That is fact. It is also putting lives at risk. Our time is running short as we have been lucky too long not to lose a life. I say let us demand that one representative with decision making power from the City of Brentwood, the City of Oakley, and Contra Costa County be placed in a room with no others (only three) to decide how to correct this problem created by their entities. Yes, it was created by the three. I say let the abundance of reports done create a template for what is needed to increase our services to that of a normal fire district and how much more money is required to achieve it. I say let the three find a formula and a solution to contribute permanent funds to accommodate the fiscal need for proper fire suppression in our communities. It’s time the three money players of east county fix this. I say let the two city managers and the county administrator meet. No others ! Others will spoil the decision and progress. Step one find out what exact amount of funds are needed. Step two meet with the three and formalize who contributes how much based on population, square miles, calls, and future development build out. Step three, waste no time to implement.
Johnny Firefighter. You tell others to get their facts, get yours. Transparent California shows firefighters in this county making in the neighborhood of $200K per year which inclides over $50K in benefits. You show me an average cook who even makes what the firefighters make in benefits alone. Their training and esucation does not watrant such high pay, not even close. Teachers should make more than firefighters. Mental health professiinals should make more than firefighters. Unions…they are killing California.
If you hate the fire department so much stop calling them then!
I have my facts straight. It’s people like you that continue to cloud the issue in hopes that the public will remain confused enough to not properly fund our fire district. The points you raised have been raised multiple times and have been properly vetted…over and over. You just don’t like the answers.
To John; Obviously you missed most of the points. The first being the comments made about internet trolls. Those were coming from those who were adding juvenile name calling but of course you misread it and took it right out of context. (What ever I choose for my own moniker is irrelevant). I believe a child could figure that one out. You didn’t.
Your following commentary is possibly the most ridiculous thing I have ever read. It is obvious that you skipped civics in school or haven’t been paying attention to this issue over the last decade. Your suggestion or demand as it seems, is beyond silly. Fantasy Island maybe, but real world…not a chance. The City managers of both Brentwood (Gus Vina), Oakley (Bryan Montgomery) and Contra Costa County, CAO (David Twa) are not decision makers nor do they have any authority to do so or even vote on such matters. They have no authority to “implement”. Contact any one of them and they will be happy to inform you of this. Further, All three have read the reports and agree with the solutions offered, just not yours.
It’s all about revenue. Not reallocation, not existing revenue, but new revenue. All the reports which you alluded to, all claim the same thing. Everyone is already on the same page, except for individuals like you who refuse to accept that there is already and answer. Suggesting that it is “political” only demonstrates you have no concept of what is at play. If it was political any politician would love to step up and solve the problem. The reality is that it comes down to the citizens ability and choice to support the district or not. It’s as democratic as it gets. The problem with what you are trying to peddle is that it further confuses the public and we are right back where we started over 10 years ago. No solution. I get it, you don’t want to pay for the services you wish you had. You don’t pay the same percentage as others in the county for fire service. It’s just that simple, but you want to continue to play this silly game.
You wrote; “However, many good suggestions for fixes have been ignored due to politics.” The fact remains that all of the suggestions you are referring to (even though you didn’t bother to be specific) have been answered and explained. They are not good “fixes” and they don’t work. It’s not that they are being ignored, its just how you are dealing with rejection of the ideas that don’t carry water. Let’s be clear; the industry leaders, fire professionals, fire board, consultants, elected officials and city/county managers all know the solution and it has been in every report-new revenue. They have been telling you the solution. You just don’t like it, so you are claiming the non-solutions you prefer are being “ignored”. If you can’t be honest with yourself, then no amount of debate will help you. Its why so many people have just stopped debating and arguing with you. It’s why the fire district has said you are getting the service you pay for-period. That’s an undeniable fact and where we are today.
p.s. If you are going to berate a profession for their educational requirements, at least learn how to spell education, otherwise you make yourself look uneducated. But thanks for the laugh anyway.
GYFSMJ; Let’s be clear when it comes to getting ones facts straight. I am glad you brought up and actually visited the site Transparent California. Although anyone that appears on that list will tell you it is full of financial flaws, once again we find ourselves in the same old debate and you trying desperately to twist the facts. Sorry but your efforts only provide an opportunity to education once again, so I think you in advance for that.
You claim Transparent California shows “firefighters” making in the “neighborhood” of $200k per year. What is wrong with that statement is it leaves out many details which undermine your assertion all together.
First, start with asking any East Co. Firefighter what he makes annually. If you don’t believe him, ask to see a pay stub-most will be happy to show you. Our firefighters make about 1/4 or 50k a year salary of that inflated neighborhood of “200k” you cited.
The devil is in the details…..You see the issue starts with what is considered a firefighter. The way I see it and how it has been explained, is that our department has a management Chief (1) and Battalion Chiefs (3). While they are usually higher paid than the “rank and file”, in our case they make a fraction of what other chiefs in other departments make. Just like the firefighters, ask them. It’s not that hard.
When it comes to the rest of the ranks- Captains, Drivers (engineers) and firefighters they too are paid a fraction of what firefighters are paid through the Bay area.
You stated in your comment, “firefighters in this county making in the neighborhood of $200K per year”. What is problematic about your statement is according to public sources there are 10 fire departments in this county. So which departments are you talking about? I was being specific to East Contra Costa firefighters who are paid far less than their Bay Area counterparts and Contra Costa counterparts. It’s important to be specific unless you were trying to mislead other readers.
The biggest oversight that you provided is the TCOE. You know what that is right? For those that may not it is the “Total Cost of Employment” which is far different that an annual salary. This is where certain people begin to play games with information. Let’s be real shall we? How many people even know their own TCOE? You see, often it is made up of any additional Vacation compensation, Sick Leave compensation, Unscheduled overtime hours, Uniform allowances, Medical, Dental & Vision insurance, Vehicle allowances, Comp pay or duty differentials and of course any employer paid contributions to benefits such as retirement. Human Resources people know that is the fully loaded “Cost” of an employee, which in many cases exceeds 100 percent of salary. Given that knowledge, you must take all of it into consideration. If a east county firefighter was even making 60k a year, 25 percent of that goes straight to a mandatory retirement account. 15k right off the top, leaving his salary at 45k before taxes and insurance. A more honest and realistic figure for our firefighters is that they are living on approx 30k a year/ 2,500 a month after taxes. Still want to debate if that is “High Pay” living in the Bay area/Contra Costa County. I wonder how it feels applying for a home loan with those figures? We do want them to be a part of the local community right?
I sincerely hope you stop this infatuation with substituting opinions and assumptions for facts in your efforts to try to mislead others. If you can’t be honest with yourself, please have the decency to stop trying to play everyone else as a fool. We get it, you feel overtaxed, we all do. The difference is some of us see solutions and understand we must pay for emergency services, just like our neighbors in the rest of the county.
Knowing all of this, I hope you were joking when you said Unions…they are killing California. A more accurate statement may be; Ignorance is killing California.
Nope, I’m not with any union so you can save your assumptions for some other subject.
It’s good to know that Chiefs are lumped as firefighters on the salary charts. That explains why some of the salaries are what they are.
Thx!
Question to ECT regarding your comment stated here.
ECT Jul 31, 2017 at 8:15 am
Careful what you ask for, I am sure the Fire District, as well as the rest of East County would love to stop responding to calls on Bethel Island and focus on higher density areas while island residents protect themselves.
Do you know or have you heard something we are not aware of? Love to stop responding to calls on Bethel Island?
Quite a disturbing comment
ECT is stating the obvious! How dense are you people???? I agree with the other poster,
I think you islanders are living on Fantasy Island!
Johnny Firefighter, who is NOT a firefighter, is still writing gigantic walls of words despite his admitted lack of credentials, training and experience.
Dangerous.
Notice no actual firefighters have chimed in? They wouldn’t want to be associated with this fool/nut.
I tried to be nice, but this guy is bad news in my opinion.
Fyi to Johnny: There are quite a few current/retired people with Military/LEO/Fire experience out here who would smell you faster than they’d smell a skunk.
But you think you know better. You’re not a firefighter AND you weren’t here. 0 for 2.
But we should listen to you. NOT.
20 minutes to respond is unacceptable. The air is miserable.
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