Monday night, the East Contra Costa Fire Protection District Fire Board took the first step in moving forward with a potential parcel tax during the June 2014 ballot. The unanimous vote now allows staff to begin gather information regarding a parcel tax and its options.
The goal of the tax is to ensure that the District maintains the current service level of five stations with three man crews. If you recall, last July, ECCFPD shut down three stations (Bethel island, Knightsen, and Brentwood) and laid off firefighters after Measure S failed.
The District was able to temporary re-open two of the three stations (Brentwood and Knightsen) after a SAFER Grant was awarded, however, that is set to expire in November 2014. See pictures from May 1!
Upon suggestion by some in the public to attempt for another grant, Chief Hugh Henderson explained Monday night that re-upping the grant is not an option or a fiscally responsible solution because the District would then be responsible for funding the 10-firefighters covered under the current grant with District fund that they don’t have for a period of two years. Any new grant funds would only cover new hires.
If a revenue enhancement is not pursued and approved, the District will go back a three-station model with less staffing than prior to the 2012 cuts due to the district funding.
Even with the reality facing the Contra Costa Taxpayers Association and the Contra Costa County Republican Party spokespersons in the audience, neither was pleased with the option of more taxes.
Hal Bray of Brentwood was in attendance representing the Republican Party of Contra Costa County and stated there had to be more giving by the District before they would support a tax. He suggestion more meaningful pension reform, salary reductions, and a change in service model.
Alex Aliferis, Executive Director/Spokesperson for the Contra Costa Taxpayers Association wanted to confirm the district had looked at service model changes and see if the district is considering changes.
“Just one minor question or comment, I know CONFIRE has got Fitch & Associations study and have you considered something of that sort for this fire protection district and looking at different delivery models and meaningful changes in delivery service models before placing a parcel tax on the ballot,” said Aliferis.
In contrast, Bob Mankin, a resident of Discovery Bay, encouraged the Board to move forward with exploring the options of a revenue enhancement.
“I would encourage the Board to absolutely move forward to gather information and start laying the foundation for a new ballot measure. My take is that this is a fire district on life support and in about 15-months someone is going to come out and pull the plug unless we do something about it,” said Mankin. “You really have no option than going out for a revenue enhancement. I think it’s important you start sooner rather than later. It’s not a question of voting yes or no, it’s a matter of when you pull the trigger.”
Board Member Ronald Johansen stated that it’s up to the public to decide what taxes they want and do not want. He explained that any district that does not have enough resources to put out a structure fire is a district in trouble and encourages solutions over rhetoric.
It was a pleasure for us to have a representation from the Taxpayer Association and Republican Party to come here to speak to us, but what I would like to say to them is this board is facing a very difficult challenge to resolve the financial crisis we face that will allow us to provide our neighbors, our families the level of service that they deserve and a level that will make a difference in their lives, their health and whether or not their property will be maintained in a safe matter for their future.
I appreciate the fact that the gentlemen Republican Party mentioned that there is 62-tax initiatives’ being moved forward. As a taxpayer myself, there are those that I support and those that I don’t support. As a voter, I make my own decision based on the value of their importance to society and the value and importance to my community, my family and myself. I believe our taxpayers have an opportunity and should have an opportunity to make their own decision and to determine whether or not the future of their future service will be one that will truly be able to provide protection and the services they deserve.
When I look at the model that we just came from, from closing stations which is why I got involved, I realized the fire protections services that we had based on last tax initiative failing was one that could not save my home if my home was to catch on fire. I don’t want to see that message given again to my community where we can only say to them we cannot guarantee the safety and saving of your home and your property it is our desire to save your neighbors because of lack of resources and lack of stations, or personal that exist in the model we incur if we go back with another failure on tax initiative, assessment or opportunity in revenue that we quite frankly look for and have a challenging time to identify because they don’t exist.
I too am concerned tax payer but I too have the ability to make a choice which that is the most important part. I don’t ask the Taxpayer Association to endorse our taxes because I know how they generally stand on all taxes but I do ask to give us an opportunity to allow our voters to make a choice, an informed choice so they recognize the real risk of what this decision will be. We have already proven that by having to close stations down in the past and going into a service model that is unacceptable and truly does put lives at risk and property at risk.
I encourage the taxpayer Association and Republican Party to come forward, come to our meetings, come to our community sessions to find solutions… I encourage them to come help us find solutions. They have identified some things they would like us to do and I can assure you we have looked at those things because we felt they were just as important as you have and we want to do what is responsible, what is good for our community, families, neighbors, but more importantly we want to operate in a way that the public knows we are not trying to woof over their eye, not trying to hide money… we want them to know everything is out in the open.
As for our firefighters, I understand that those communities that are concerned about our firefighter wages and pensions, some of those things that our outside the scope we are able to address, but I can assure you the firefighters of East Contra Costa Fire Protection District, they are firefighters that continue to serve and work at an agency of 30-40% reduced wages and benefits than that of pretty much any agency in the bay area and beyond. They have given up a lot in this last contract again in order to continue to serve this community and I can never be more proud of them. They have stepped up they continue to step up and do what is right for this community and hopefully see this agency to survive. We are only asking for an opportunity to service at this time and hopefully one day thrive.
Board President Joel Bryant called the decision to move forward with a revenue enhancement a responsibility of the board to protect the public. He encouraged the taxpayers association and republican party to get involved in the process.
The very reason I wanted to stay on as a director is because I live here. We are a district. The questions raised earlier were valid and so important we did the research, we did ask neighboring district for input and received back a resounding not interested, but thank you. We did not do that in measure S and felt obligated to do now.
I work in conjunction with first responders with Brentwood Police Dept. as a Chaplin. Although these numbers are very clear our current model is not sustainable, but we cannot forget each one of these numbers are a name and face when responding. Although fiscal and fiduciary responsible is an absolute essentially, we are also personal responsible for doing our utmost to protect the lives of our community, family, friends, neighbors, and strangers that we don’t know.
I heard it mentioned at some point over the last three months that when we went down to three stations that there were no lives lost. I can tell you right now that I can give you names and introduce you to families who lives were lost due to lack of services. I want to do anything that I can to prevent more lives lost unnecessary because of the framework, because the fundamental structure of funding of this district is flawed. We do not have a spending problem, we have a structural funding problem all the way from Proposition 13.
Originally when we had the opportunity in the 1970’s to request a specific amount of funding to fund our needs, these communities were very small, farming communities. We are nowhere close to that now yet the same mathematical formula is used to fund us. It is not sufficient. Until there are fundamental and real changes to funding structures that we are faced with right now, no amount of cutting the fat, no amount of tightening the belt, it is not going to address the real problem. The only way we can address the problem is to find temporary solutions, and admittedly, these are temporary solutions to a long term problem.
But I cannot look myself in the mirror, look at my family or look at your family in the eye without doing everything I can possibility do to bring forth a reasonable solution and reasonable expectation of safety in our community. The reality is this, if we do not have a future funding increase of some sort in this district, there will be layoffs, firehouse closures, when that happens we are going to have to make some very hard and serious decisions as to what kind of calls we do respond to when we are not able to answer a 9-1-1 call that someone calls for emergency services and we do not have the personnel to show up there will be further lives loss, further property loss and that will be on our shoulders if we have not done everything we can to prevent it as much as we can.
I am not willing to trade public approval for some areas with lives. Lives are more important than people liking me, voting for me, and as far as I am concerned, we have no choice than to find additional revenue resources. Not only do we welcome conversation and input from the Republican Party and Contra Costa Tax Payers Association, we are pleading with you, I am pleading with you as a board member, please if you have information that we don’t, if you have ideas that we don’t, please help us define these ideas. This is not rhetoric; this is not lip service, every one of these families I have a personal responsibility for. And I am willing to listen and do what is necessary to protect them. So please, if you are willing to meet with us we are asking us to please do and any member of the public, if we have any ideas that we haven’t thought of.
This is not a process that began a year ago or two years ago, we have been dealing with the same situation from beginning of the district and before and the ideas we have gone over its almost like living in Groundhog Day the movie. The same ideas, the same people,. Same arguments are going time and time again and no solutions. We have got to come up with a solution that is viable. So its my opinion we have no choice but to move forward.
August Calls for Service
There were a total of 538 service calls in the month of August, with an average response time of 7:24 minutes. In the month of July, the District ran 565 calls with an average response time of 7:14 minutes. In the calendar year of 2012, the District ran 6303 calls for service with an average response time of 6:54.
Looking at the response times by stations:
- Station 52-John Muir Parkway, Brentwood, had 151 calls in the month of August with an average response time of 6:50 minutes. In July there were a total of 164 calls with an average response time of 7:23 minutes. In the calendar year of 2012 the station ran 1748 calls for service with an average response time of 6:10.
- Station 54-Downtown Brentwood, had 97 calls in the month of August with an average response time of 6:04 minutes. In July there were a total of 123 calls with an average response time of 6:02 minutes. In the calendar year of 2012 the station ran 1345 calls for service with an average response time of 6:35. 2 of 2
- Station 59-1685 Bixler Rd, Discovery Bay, had 76 calls in the month of August with an average response time of 9:38 minutes. In July there were a total of 62 calls with an average response time of 9:30 minutes. In the calendar year of 2012 the station ran 786 calls for service with an average response time of 8.44.
- Station 93 530 O’Hare Ave, Oakley, had 149 calls in the month of August with an average response time of 5:58 minutes. In July there were a total of 140 calls with an average response time of 5:54 minutes. In the calendar year of 2012 the station ran 1801 calls for service with an average response time of 6:17.
- Station 94-15 A St, Knightsen, had 17 calls in the month of August with an average response time of 10:32 minutes. In July there were a total of 17 calls with an average response time of 7:50 minutes. In the calendar year of 2012 the station ran 149 calls for service with an average response time of 9:12
- Station 95- 3045 Ranch Ln, Bethel Island (closed 7-1-2012), had 33 calls in the area of this closed station in the month of August with an average response time of 10:32 minutes. In the month of July there were 40 calls with an average response time of 10:46 minutes. In the calendar year of 2012 the District ran 338 calls for service in the station area with an average response time of 9:34.
- Cal-Fire Station 16-Marsh Creek/Morgan Territory had 15 calls in the month of August with an average response time of 8:12 minutes. In July there were a total of 18 calls with an average response time of 8:57 minutes. In the calendar year of 2012 the station ran 161 calls for service with an average response time of 9.00.
Auto aid:
In the month of August, the District received auto aid from Contra Costa County Fire 24 times, with them sending 31 engines. The District sent auto aid to Contra Costa County Fire 23 times providing them with 27 engines. During the month of July, Contra Costa County Fire came into the District 34 times with 47 engines and we responded into Contra Costa County Fire 22 times with 28 engines.
In 2012, the District received auto aid from Contra Costa County Fire 389 times with them sending 518 engines. The District sent auto aid to Contra Costa County Fire a total of 167 times in 2012, sending 194 engines.
56 comments
For the naysayers, don’t you dare forget about the multiple restaurant fires at Tailgaters or La Fuente Let’s also not forget about the 250 acre fire in Brentwood or the fire by the golf course in Brentwood. Three engine companies will mean a lot of people will feel a lot of pain.
I hate taxes, but 3 stations is a suicide mission.
We need to keep our fire stations open. How about cutting spending on prisoners to fund it? We should not treat our prisoners so nicely, put them in tents in the desert like Sherrif Joe does in AZ, he spends FAR less per prisoner than CA does. Also, we have had a lot of residential fires lately, can someone from the Fire Dept. post tips on fire prevention on Facebook and on this website? Prevention would not only save lives and homes, it would save a lot of money. A LOT of people in our area don’t have working smoke detectors, and even fewer have fire extinguishers in their homes. Also, why can’t we increase fines for arson exponentially? Like the fire that destroyed a portion of the Antioch city park, for example, fine the people who did it.
You could eliminate prisons altogether and it wouldn’t do a thing for restoring your fire department’s funding. They don’t come from the same funding source.
This is a huge problem with this debate. People do not understand how the fire department is funded. Until you understand that, there will be wild ideas thrown around that do nothing to solve this problem.
Fire departments in this area are funded by a fixed percentage of property tax revenues. The percentage does not change from year to year. It is not negotiated by the fire board or the Board of Supervisors. It is a locked in number that was put in place by Proposition 13 over 35 years ago.
You could close the prisons, fire every street sweeper and stop paving any roads, if you wanted to. It still doesn’t change the money the fire department receives one iota.
The laws don’t allow you to willy nilly move money around either. So if you’re thinking you could just take savings from one area and move it to another, you would be wrong. Laws on the books and the way government is structured simply don’t work like that.
I read a comment in another blog where a reader complained that schools and fire are funded last and he voted “No” because of that. What a horrible tragedy that the voting public is that misinformed and will vote against their own personal safety in such a misguided belief!!
Schools and fire are funded FIRST, through those locked in Prop 13 formulas. The main thing that creates the underfunding and budget deficits is the wildly fluctuating property values, which are not directly tied to costs those districts must deal with. There are other factors, but that is the primary reason.
Understood, but why can’t we change things? Why do they have to stay the same? The system is BROKEN. We need to fix it instead of doing the same thing over and over, expecting a different result. You know that is a definition of insanity, right?
You would have to make the change in Sacramento. For you to “win” more money for the fire district means someone else has to “lose” their portion of that pie, if tax rates are kept constant.
By far, the largest percentage of most any tax rate area goes to the schools. In some cases as much as 60 cents of each dollar. Fire accounts for only 5-8% of that dollar in East County. A little higher in some isolated areas. In other parts of the county that figure is 12-15% and as high as 30% in places like Kensington over in west county.
It is VITAL that people start educating themselves on how these funding mechanisms work. It is disturbing that after one ballot defeat we still have people putting out such copious amounts of false information or making wild assertions about where the money could come from. As a voter it is your responsibility to be better informed than that when you cast your ballot.
Your own safety is at risk here.
The change in property tax allocations would require state legislation to rework the formula for every local government in the state. Good luck with that. The only other revenue possible is what we as a Board are preparing to do; ask the Voters to approve a parcel tax to fund a bare-bones District while the various studies are completed and pilot projects can be tried and evaluated. The wait for studies to be completed is in accord with the spirit of the Grand Jury recommendations, but we cannot allow the District to fall below viability in the meantime.
Since the Board became locally controlled, we have made many cuts. The budget has been trimmed to the limit of prudence. I get belt tightening, but I don’t think it should be around the neck.
Good job JigsUp!
Great posts by both Jigs Up and Steve. More people need to understand how the district is funded rather than listen to false innuendos put out by a few anti-tax crusaders. What we should be doing is looking for the best way to get the correct information out there. It is in everyone’s best interest.
“MELLO ROSS” – We already pay for stuff like this, don’t let them fool you because the city can not budget properly. They either find someone that knows how to budget the money we ALREADY pay, or it’s time for firefighter’s to pay more into their pension/cuts like most other cities are doing in our current times. New taxes while the city is still underwater on mortgages…ABSURD!
This has nothing to do with Mello Roos. This has nothing to do with any City Budget. You can see the ECCFPD budget documents online. The latest contract with our Firefighters has them paying 100% of their contribution to their pensions. Our Firefighters are, by a large percentage, the lowest paid in the Bay Area. We are funded by a slice of Property Tax which was inadequate at the height of the housing boom, and is disasterous with the huge drop in assessed valuations.
Liz,
This has nothing to do with Mello Roos. They are different animals entirely. Please, stop putting false, WRONG, and misleading information out there. We do NOT already pay for fire services that we require. We have been paying a substandard amount of money and now the situation is critical. We have been UNDERPAYING for years. Think of it this way, we have been getting fire protection at fire sale prices. Now the service is at risk of going out of business. These firefighters are already paying more than anyone when it comes to what they put into their pensions (maybe you haven’t you been following this issue?) They are also paid the LEAST of any firefighters in the area. The budget is public and you are welcome to look at it. I have. There is NO where to cut. It is a revenue problem-NOT a spending one. Please inform yourself before you pass judgment.
It is the LEAST you can do, for those that put their lives on the line for US.
Liz~Why are you worried???? this fire Department is not even in your area!!!!!!!! its people like you that open your mouth to topics not in your area… stick to Con Fire’s issues not East Contra Costas Fire Issues… I’m in Oakley and I don’t pay into Mello Roos. People need to open their eyes and get the facts straight… if your paying less in property taxes that means less funding to your agencies.. ..LIZ, keep your opinions on your side of the border we will worry about ours
Where is the money they already get going to?? How have we gotten by all these years without a problem?? Who is stealing the money??
What is wrong with you people. This is not a NEW issue. It has been well publicized that the district has been burning through its financial reserves and has been forced to close stations. Is that getting by? As Jigs Up pointed out the amount of taxes collected for fire service has been frozen for 30 plus years. Since it is a “percentage” and property tax rates have fallen through the floor, the tax payer has actually been paying LESS for a few years. Look at your property tax bill. Compare it to your bills before the economic meltdown and real-estate debacle.
Looks to me that since you have been paying LESS in taxes you would be the one “getting rich” because it certainly is not our fire department.
well said B-Wood…….. people need to learn the facts before saying its over spending…these guys @ ECCFPD haven’t had raises in years and already make far less than other fire departments they have already given up a lot to protect their communities. these guys put into their retirements monthly (their own $$$) and they DO NOT get Social Security Benefits.. If the county would stop readjusting everyone’s damn property taxes the fire departments wouldn’t have these issues…they get rich while the communities suffer… wake up people!
Great information being discussed here, but again, we need to FIX the broken system. Let’s vote for new politicians in all levels of CA government, including Sacramento. Stop voting over and over again for the same people who do nothing. We must seek other solutions for keeping fire stations open. What about going back to using volunteer firemen to supplement the paid force? Can the unions set aside any objections to that given the shortage? I get tired of hearing people say we CAN”T do anything, yes we can, we can vote! Don’t give up! Make the change at the next election, don’t keep making the same mistake over and over and over!
Let me answer your volunteer question with a few questions.
Would you be willing to buy a few thousand dollars worth of gear? Would you be willing to give up about half of your weekends each year? That would be every year, btw. Plus quite a few weeknights.
Equipment and training requirements dictate the questions above. There is a 200 hr/year training requirement in California. It’s not a ton different in other states these days. Lawsuit happy country that we are.
Now let’s assume you would sign up for that. Could you get 150 others to do the same? That would get enough in the pipeline for East Con. For ConFire you’ll need about 700-800 people like yourself.
Now that we’ve got a willing group, will you be ready and able to give up your Sunday of watching football on a moment’s notice? Or how about a holiday weekend when you have a big family BBQ planned?
This so you can go work in steep terrain……on a 100 degree day. You’ll be working a 24 hr shift, then we’ll let you get a few hours sleep. Then we’ll put you back out there for another 24.
You’re in physical shape to handle that, right? You won’t keel over with heat exhaustion or heat stroke and then become a distraction to the fire fighting effort because we have to now evacuate your butt to a hospital, right?
Oh, and we’ll be needing you for several days straight. Sorry, but the nature of the job is open ended. We can’t tell you when we’ll be able to let you go home. If we have a really unfortunate big incident, like say the recent Rim fire in Yosemite, we might need to keep you away from home, regular work and family for as much as a couple of weeks.
Your regular job will understand, right? They’ll pay you for your time away from their place of business, right?
If you could get back to us with the answers to those questions, we could probably answer yours better about the viability of volunteers in this district.
Kenji,
While there is a need to fix a broken system, it is a very tall order. It would take decades to promote such change and currently there is no effort to do so. Government is more often reactive than proactive. While I don’t disagree with your desire to change the system, I take issue with its feasibility. We have a fire district funding issue that is staring us in the face. It was never properly funded in the first place. We have been undercharged for years (fact). Instead of understanding that we have been getting by on the cheap, there are those out there that don’t want to pay the amount necessary to obtain a level of service that we have grown accustomed to. Just read any of “ECV’s brothers” or “Honest Injun’s”. They are filled with bad information which is meant to mislead you. It happened before, so I guess we will see if we have learned that ultimately we will get the service we pay for. From what I see, there is no profit margin in the fire department.
The volunteer question continues to come up as do three or four of the same worn out questions. They have all been answered a dozen times on blogs, letters and news articles. Yet people like yourself continue to ask. Ok, maybe we should ask; At what point do people comprehend the answer? At what point to they either decide to agree or disagree? Or is it that you just now decided to pay attention to this issue? I do not know if any it applies to you. However just asking the same question over and over again is what a five year old child does when he/she isn’t getting their way. Or what someone like ECVbrother or Honest Injun does when he is trying to mislead someone like you.
From what I have gathered here is the problem with Volunteers.
First, I am presuming you are suggesting that “other” people volunteer. In other words you believe that a group of “random but qualified” people will show up to volunteer? Or better put you are volunteering others to do a job that you don’t wish to pay for. I’m not trying to be snarky. I simply want to make sure we are clear on how this works.
Volunteer worked here years ago when the make up of the area was far different than today. Volunteers do work well in “Rural” locations where the population is sparse and since the majority of the country is sparse there are actually more volunteers than paid professionals. However, that is not the case in our densely populated county. We are Urban and the department responds to a much higher percentage of calls than a volunteer department could handle. If that is not compelling enough, this is compounded by new safety requirements which make it a job more than a hobby. I have read that the hours required to train, make it virtually impossible to train, volunteer and hold a regular paying job. Most if not all employers are going to frown on an employee that gets injured or fatigued on a second job……especially when that second job is a dangerous one that requires late hour work.
I also understand that while there some people that want to volunteer, not everyone is qualified. Physically or mentally. ECV’sbrother is evidently a prime example of this. It doesn’t take a genius to see that while a hundred might apply, only a handful are truly qualified or considered.
Now throw in the higher expectations of the public. That’s right, the public has become accustomed to a certain level of service. I know I have. Have you ever had a volunteer respond to your emergency? I recently had that experience and it sold me on how important it is to have a paid professional department in our area. So unless you have no problem with delays while laying on the hot asphalt of Highway 4 or Vasco road you might want to reconsider playing the volunteer card.
Good money says, someone else will be asking about volunteers within a day or two. Now you can educate them.
Where is Injun Johnny ? I know he is not out volunteering ! He is probably turning over the couch cushions looking for loose change. Tax time is coming !!!!!!!!!!
Bawahahahaaaaaaa !!!!!!!
Very well put about volunteers! U get what u pay for. Why would u hire a plumber to help u wire a light?? Exactly!!
U have no idea about volunteers. It will not work in this area. Too many people work Out of the area. So how would that work for calls during the day? Everybody thinks that’s the solution. Well it’s NOT! U get what u pay for and being how volunteers are not paid?? Well u see what I mean.
Are they broke because they are overpaying the guys who retired?
Bizzaro-
Overpaying as in a percentage of 60k a year??? 50k??? I’ll bet they are buying all sorts of goods and services with that kind of dough. I’ll bet your wondering, where do I sign up???
And it all must be worth it right???
Risk life and limb for 30 years.
Work on holidays and weekends.
Miss Birthdays, Weddings, Anniversaries.
Work odd hours and odd schedules- get up in the middle of the night,
Breathe in 30 years worth of smoke containing toxins & carcinogens.
Exposure to dangerous chemicals and sick people (cough, cough) for 30 years.
Watch people lose loved ones, and all their possessions.
See children, adults and the elderly die-often tragically.
See people at their worst moments.
All in the name of protecting life and property.
Sure there is probably no cumulative effect to all of this.
Where did they dig up this Hal Bray guy? Did someone find him sleeping under a tree?
East County has been making concessions for years, including new ones in the recent contract. But this guy insists he’s going to get more blood before he relents? Step off, Pal!
This is not a hostage negotiation. People who debate the issue like that will be treated like the terrorists that they emulate. Ditto for the new talking head from CCTPA. His corporate handlers are going to be taken to the woodshed on this one. How dumb do you have to be to march into a meeting of a fire board that doesn’t have two nickels to rub together and suggest they commission a study for a couple hundred thousand dollars? By the way, the exact same study they are doing in ConFire and questions the same issues that have been covered several times before(see Citygate, previous MSRs). Some people just don’t understand the meaning of the word “No”.
That’s the CCTPA’s idea of fiscal prudence? Run these clowns out of town. They are nothing but hot air and incompetence!!
They LIED when they said station closures were a bluff. They LIED when they claimed no lives would be lost. Look at the quotes from Joel Bryant in this piece. If I were a citizen who had been personally affected by one of the tragedies brought about by these liars, I would be going to the ends of the Earth for accountability from these people.
Buyaclue,
GREAT points!!! I am appalled that people like this show up late to the party and demand that everyone who has been “volunteering” to run the district immediately re-answer all of the recycled questions that have been plaguing the district for years…..and then, and only then will they offer their support of proper funding. People like Hal Bray and the CCTPA need to be exposed for their special interests. They are not Joe citizen. They are not trying to make things better or us safer. They have no skin in the game.
I remember reading an article by a CCtimes writer (Tom Barnridge?) who basically said, we all got played by the anti tax people. “We showed us” with a no vote. It was never about pensions or the union. That’s right, a few loudmouths like Dan Bornstein, Kris Hunt, and Dave Roberts who have comprehension issues (amongst other things) misled the voters. Now we have Kris Hunt part II (Hal Bray) that is so cheap he doesn’t have two nickels to rub together. Does he even live in the district? He sure has no concept of the problems and even less of the solution.
It is tragic if not comical, that he suggests the department cutting costs before he will support a tax. Where has he been-under a 3,000 pound rock?
Our firefighters are already severely underpaid. I wonder how they could even afford to live or purchase a home in our community. Yet we want them to be able to respond on a moments notice if disaster strikes (like the fire on Mt. Diablo). Think about that for a moment!
It has been reported that they contribute 25 percent of their pay into retirement-pension, when in other counties the norm is 10-15 percent and under!
Over the last few years they have also come to know how little the citizens they serve (US) care about them. It is downright offensive. ……and now this guy rides into town to say they need to bleed a little more before he will support the latest effort to bring proper funding and service to our community? What a first class a-hole.
Thanks for your comments Buyaclue. I hope more and more people figure out that we were all duped the last time around. 200 bucks makes for a pretty cheap insurance policy. My family and home not to mention my peace of mind are well worth it.
I see we have the regular Jokers for 1230 crowd here passing their spin as usual. They point fingers and blame others because they want that ego control thing goin on because they think they are above the common person. The three or four know it all’s would bankrupt anything they touch if they had to work for it. All they have is lip service on blogs like this.They think people have gobs of money sitting in a tin can in the back yard and they are entitled to those people what to do with it. The people up Morgan Territory pay twice for fire.These jerks want more. The pension for these low paid firefighters is in debt by several millions. They may be paying the current pension now but all the underpayments are on the peoples backs. These goons talk about raises. Who said anyone anywhere in any organization is entitled to a raise? You sound like a bunch welfare dependents at the public trough. I got an idea. Apply all raises from this point on to the deficit of the pension and budget until the district becomes solvent current, and operating at the recommended staff level. I think many people are willing to pay as long as everyone takes on the burden. If the fire district can make a contract with the union with those terms then I think everyone is willing. Keep in mind the debt was created by the union negotiations and influence on the politicians. It would only be fair if they made that debt whole. Its over ten million I here in just ten years. I say put up or shut up. Firefighters weigh in and the public weighs in too. I would go for that on a ballot. Being in public service should never be about the money. If emergency personnel are in this type of work for the money they should quit.
I can assure you that the firefighters here in East Contra Costa Fire Protection District aren’t in it for the $$$ ..These Firefighters haven’t had raises in YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!! yes they have the same Union but are paid on 2 way difference pay scales.. these firefighter are the lowest paid..in the entire bay area possibly in CA. they make far less than CON FIRE….The mistake people like you make is pull documents from Contra Costa Fire District which are 2 Different Agencies so Please look up the correct wages pensions ect before smacking the smack!
So ways the angry, height challenged pretty boy with a chip on his shoulder.
The welfare angle is funny as hell. You _do_ know that the SAFER grant money protecting your bitter little soul comes from US taxpayers as a whole? But it is you in your little corner of East Contra Costa who is reaping the benefits of that lifeline coverage. While everyone else pays for it. Add in the disparity of mutual aid coverage with your neighbors and maybe you need to look in the mirror for your best example of a double dipping welfare case.
But I digress…….
You probably were forced to pay some kind of fire tax add-on since you moved here that is over and above the half-off rate you get compared to the ConFire people.
When was that supplemental tax passed again? Since you claim you have had to make sacrifices, surely I just missed the date in the confusion.
We wouldn’t want to walk away thinking you’re a hypocrite or just projecting again.
ECVs Brother,
Who pulled your string?
I don’t read any “spin” except from what comes from your keyboard!
You have been the one pointing fingers for months on this message board and you yourself provide the best examples of this;
* When anyone else publishes a fact you label them as “know it all’s”.
* “They think they are above the common person.”
* “They want that ego control thing goin on”
* “All they have is lip service on blogs like this.”
* “They think people have gobs of money sitting in a tin can in the back yard ”
* “These jerks want more”
That is just a few examples of the dozen finger pointing lines in your post above. Are you blind to your rhetoric or just in denial?
Once again you spin off into some contrived garbage about your lack of understanding of how pensions and employee contributions work. Not only does repeating it over and over make you look shallow, but it gives most people a clear signal that you really don’t understand what you are talking about.
You actually think that our current system of rewarding hard work, and longevity in a career is equal to welfare? “Who said anyone anywhere in any organization is entitled to a raise? You sound like a bunch welfare dependents at the public trough.”
I thank you for demonstrating that your basic mental function, problem solving and ability to rationalize is far below the “common person”. I highly recommend you re-read what you opine before you hit the post button.
You are an frustrated imbecile with a lot of personal issues rolling around that tiny brain of yours. You can’t compete with “Buyaclue” or any of the others who post here.
@ Bwood,
My little brother is somewhat of a known commodity out here. If you have been around Knightsen or Disco Bay you may have run into him. You will recognize him as the balding guy who is always rubbing two nickels together. Let us just say he is allowed to park in the Handicapped stall.
He has a mental condition and often his eyes are a little crossed, but please don’t feel sorry for him. In his case it is 100% self inflicted.
I really hate to see people get hostile at each other over this. This is a big problem that needs to be fixed, I agree there is no easy solution. Let me remind everyone that it is not just our district that is having these issues, this is happening all across the country. Change is needed from the top on this, and, yes, it will take time, but that is no reason to give up and throw up your hands. Again, use your vote. Don’t keep voting for the same idiots over and over again like you all have for years. Vote for someone that will make a change. As to volunteers, just curious, I know that there are people in the military that have firefighting skills as their MOS, why can’t we use the National Guard more, for example, to help first responders in major fires? There must be some “out of the box” ideas out there. As to volunteers, I have seen plenty of people posting on other blogs that they would (especially some ex-military folks), I realize not many would qualify, but I think it is worth at least pursuing it. And no, I am too old and too small myself, in case you are wondering.
What’s strangling the fire districts and all other levels of government(to include the military) is the same thing that would otherwise strangle private industry in this country: Runaway healthcare costs.
As a nation we pay 2x of any other developed nation on the planet for healthcare coverage. That’s untenable. The private sector copes by simply raising the prices for their goods or services. You are paying for those runaway costs there too, just indirectly.
Public sector costs and budgeting being more transparent, those rising operational costs become more of a public debate and you get goofballs insisting that public sector employees should be immune to those same cost drivers. It makes no sense, but the naysayers like ECVsBrother don’t really have a grasp on the financials. Their motives are less noble. It’s about condescension and the need to feel like they have someone under their heel. If you ever met this particular individual, you would immediately understand.
Fire fighting skills in an urban environment is a different animal than the training one gets in the military. Assuming it automatically crosses over is a deadly assumption. For example, how many vehicle extractions do you figure one learns or is exposed to in the military?
Since your suggestion is rooted in cost savings, are you assuming the National Guard is not paid? Doesn’t received healthcare that is paid with tax dollars? What do you do on days when they are unavailable because they are performing their core mission?
What this really comes down to is an irrational thought process from the naysayers. Government employees and agencies face the same cost pressures as private industry. The belief that they should hold the line on the cost of their services while the private sector just continues to raise theirs is illogical. Throw in a heaping pile of misinformation about salaries and a zealot hit team that hides behind “Editorial Board” at a local newspaper and you have the messy public debate we have today.
The comparisons have been made recently. What has your cable or phone or electricity bill done in the last 10-15 years? Do you think you could fix that upward cost trend with volunteers?
So why do you think you can do it with something as vital as public safety? Has our society reached a point where we’ll tolerate a 100% rise in our cable bill so we can watch Jerry Springer? But we won’t tolerate a much lower rise in the cost of vital protection services for our families?
How messed up is that?
I am in agreement with you, healthcare costs are extremely high, for several reasons. I am not a firefighter, I don’t have the answers. I’m just asking for people to think “out of the box”. Everyone’s comments on here are still thinking “within the box”. There must be new ideas out there? How about asking people to do more for fire prevention in their own homes, for example? I am betting there are a lot of homes in Antioch that do not have smoke/CO detectors or fire extinguishers. I, for example, have 2 fire extinguishers, one in my kitchen, and one in my garage, from what I understand are very common places fires start in the home. If everyone did their part to prevent residential fires, that would in itself be a big help, yet I have not seen any stories about this. I wrote to the admin of this page suggesting they post a story about suggestions for fire prevention.
I can tell you this much; volunteers is not thinking outside the box either. That’s the way it was largely done 30-40 yrs ago. My Dad was a volunteer for 30 years. My Mom was a volunteer for the local ambulance service in our small Calif town for at least 10. Pagers went off at all hours in our house. I’m well aware of the structure and why it doesn’t make sense for the commuter/bedroom community structure that we have in East County today, particularly with the geography and traffic challenges which did not exist when I was growing up.
Residential fires, in absolute counts, are waaaay down from what they were back in those days. Mostly due to better construction standards. That has freed up fire fighters to take on tasks like medical response. That’s what the model has evolved to. It DOES NOT eliminate their need to be on duty and at the ready. You plan and staff for worst case. You don’t staff your public safety agencies hoping for the best. That’s silly.
Part of the reason the Fitch study being conducted in ConFire is a bit of a joke. Early reports are suggesting staffing based on historical call peaks. That’s basically the same as playing at the craps table in Vegas. Except here you are gambling with peoples’ lives. Fires and major accidents don’t schedule themselves because some overpaid consultant told you it could be a money saver.
Your suggestion about retrofitting households with detectors and keeping extinguishers nearby are all good ideas. But again they don’t reduce or dismiss the need for a properly staffed fire department. Your extinguisher won’t do jack if you have an electrical fire in a wall or your attic or a pile of greasy rags catches the side of your house on fire(happens every month, btw).
You just become a potential victim who has to be rescued because you thought a $10 extinguisher was going to save you the cost of a revenue enhancement for your local FD. We have people who have already suggested just that, including a prominent elected official. Just proves you don’t have to be very bright or have common sense to win a political seat.
The point here is don’t think looking backwards is thinking outside the box. That’s all the volunteer idea really is; looking backwards.
You sound just like our city council, every time one of us tries to make suggestions, instead of coming up with new ideas, you shoot down our suggestions. I NEVER suggested smoke detectors or fire extinguishers would replace having firefighters. I am asking people to vote for new politicians to make changes, rather than voting for the same people over and over. Please, indulge us with some new ideas then!
The point: volunteers is not a new idea.
The idea of simply voting the entire lot out and starting with a whole new crew is dumb on many levels. It’s a visceral response to frustration. It ends with be careful what you wish for.
People who have never been exposed to government don’t understand the mechanics or procedures. Which means they get themselves and your fine city into trouble. Usually legal trouble. The shark infested waters of any significant size city are full of big business interests who love to steamroll rookies.
So while you think you get a fresh crop of money saving ideas coming through the front door, inexperience has your savings flowing right out the back door, and then some.
You’re convinced new ideas are your solution. Instead you might recognize that you can’t fund a fire department in the 21st century with a broken funding model that was locked in place 35 years ago. You might want to start with the basics and the obvious.
Kenji,
You may be missing the point. I have been watching this issue evolve for a few years now and there are two issues that have everyone talking in a circle. Please don’t take offense, but many people such as yourself are a bit late to the party. What I mean by that, is this (funding) issue did not appear over night. Dozens and dozens of people (elected. management and the public) have been working on it for years. Slowly as people trickle into the debate they continue to suggest the same ideas-Volunteers, for example. The reason this becomes problematic is that rather than exploring new ideas, the old ones are rehashed, re-explained and re-dismissed. Time wasted on an endless treadmill instead of plowing new ground.
The reality is that you are not actually coming up with any “new” ideas which is why you feel your “suggestions” are shot down. It doesn’t mean your city council or people here are condescending or talking down to you….it means they are frustrated because the issues you think are “new” have already been raised, debated and explained numerous times! Think of it this way; how do you respond when someone continually asks the same question over and over and over expecting a different response? That is the situation here. You may be a very bright individual, but give the people that do this for a living some credit. They didn’t just fall off of a turnip truck.
Claiming that you want “new ideas” for a fire district that isn’t broken is insulting to the fire department and the many people that have run it over the years. The operational part of the system isn’t broken-it works just fine. The problem is with the revenue and how it was originally set up back in the 1970’s (Prop 13). It wasn’t set up to fund a growing district, which is a statewide problem. No one wants to touch Prop. 13 because of a multitude of ramifications. Suggesting throwing the baby out with the bathwater never works.
If you had been following ECCFPD and it’s financial woes, you would know that a very large number of individuals (elected and appointed) have grappled with the issue over decades of responsibility. They all eventually come to the same conclusion; We have been underpaying for the emergency services we expect. One thing and one thing only will resolve this issue and it has nothing to do with volunteers, pensions, newly elected politicians, or a new service model. Con Fire is about to prove this with another expensive but worthless study and a poorly thought out and expensive EMS Squad pilot program. Both are not new ideas, but will provide us some insight upon their failure on what not to do.
B-Wood-
Well said. I first got involved in 2006 when the Public Workshops were held on the CityGate study of ECCFPD, how it had worked for the first four years since being formed through consolidation, and where things stood. The conclusion then was that there was a significant revenue shortfall, and the situation have only gotten worse since then. The conclusion then was that a 10-station district with ALS was needed, and that a parcel tax of around $250 was needed. I said then, and still feel, that three things were needed: a) local control, which we finally got four years later; b) time and opportunity for a local Board to build credibility with the community; c) a community-based campaign for a local tax. It took four years to get a), and we are working hard on b).
Since then, I’ve been through it all; the LAFCO 2009 Municipal Services review, all the workshops held as a result, almost every significant Board of Supervisors meeting regarding Fire that affected East County, every local Fire Board meeting save one (when I was on the East Coast), and finally service on the Fire Board since February of this year. We will look at any idea we can, but the bedrock problem is still a lack of adequate funding thru the Property Tax. Chief Henderson and his Batallion Chiefs are constantly making adjustments to keep coverage as effective possible. The Emergency Recall to re-staff fire stations on Sunday while the entire on-duty shift and nine pieces of equipment were committed to the Morgan fire was an exceptional piece of work. The rest of the community began to regain protection by Mid-afternoon Sunday, and it stayed in place through 8 P.M. Monday.
So here we are, planning to put on the minimum Parcel Tax on the ballot to keep a bare-bones Fire Service going for a few years while the studies are completed and pilot projects attempted. By bare-bones, I meen the capacity to fight one structure fire where the fire has had a chance to take hold.
Buy a Clue, that’s all fine and dandy, but please come up with some suggestions instead of just criticizing people for trying. You really think that voting over and over again for the same politicians who don’t care will help? I didn’t take political science in college, so I don’t know how the system works, but I know that it is broken. We need to do something. Perhaps other cities across the US have some successful ideas they have brought into practice? Don’t you agree that the current model does not work and will not keep the stations open? I’m sure we all want the same thing, we want to keep our firefighters staffed to sufficient levels for our public safety.
Kenji,
I realize that your comment is not directed at me, but I would like to share my opinion.
Suggestion: Pass a revenue enhancement that will properly fund the fire district. Place a 7-10 year sunset on this tax/assessment so that the voters retain control of the ability to modify it, increase or sunset it, if it does not meet the needs of the community going forward.
Suggestion: Every time a vote is cast for a politician, review the candidates so that you become a informed voter. Simply suggesting that you wipe the slate clean each time tells me you are not doing your homework or fulfilling your responsibility to be an informed voter. Casting good people aside every election will do nothing to help good people who want to make a difference. If you don’t know how the system works, then the value of your opinion is diminished as to whether it is broken or not.
Rational: You are confusing the service model with an economical (funding) problem in regards to keeping stations open. It’s apples and oranges. The current funding model doesn’t work. It lacks sufficient revenue to keep our services at a level to protect our communities. In contrast the current service model works very well and is based on many years of fine tuning to get us where we are today.
Last points: If you are worried about the “system” being broken you might want to spend two minutes actually seeing where your property tax dollars go. It’s a pie chart and easy to digest. I’ll make it easy for you -just click on this link: http://www.co.contra-costa.ca.us/index.aspx?NID=1125
You may be surprised to know where your hard earned tax dollars go. Schools take 50 percent right off the top. You know, the very same schools that are always claiming financial hardship and getting you to pass numerous bonds? Remember what I said about becoming and educated voter? The rest of the providers of those service you expect have to fight for the remaining scraps…..this includes the fire department. Get educated, the information is out there just waiting to be learned.
Great comments. Now, if we can just get Antioch voters to stop voting for someone just because of their race, or whether they speak spanish, as so many of them do. Unfortunately, the majority of Antioch voters will keep on voting that way and nothing will change. Sad but true.
Kenji!!!! you live in Antioch????? stick to Antioch’s Issues not East Contra Costa Fire Districts’s Issues!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! East Contra Costa Fire District is Oakley, Brentwood, Bryon, Discovery Bay, Bethal Island and Knightsen. DO YOU SEE ANTIOCH in this list???NOTHING to do with Antioch… so use your energy to fight your battles for CON FIRE not EAST CON get them correct.
Kenji,
You make several excellent points.
The current model is flawed as the funding mechanism assumes fire protection services that were the norm for fire districts thirty-fives years ago. Emergency medical services being provided to such a large degree by the local fore districts part of the program. Nor was the financial burden being placed on the fire district. The cost of emergency medical services was to be borne by the counties.
For a number of reasons, the county has sluffed their responsibility to provide (fund) emergency medical services, and the local fire district has (for a number of reasons) accepted it.
That leaves us with a County that stands back and says they have no responsibility to fund fire districts even though the districts are doing work that is the county’s responsibility to provide.
So here’s an idea for the fire district: inform the county that it should continue to dispatch the resources it believes are required to serve its constituency, but reimburse the district for the cost of the services it asks the district to provide.
If he county has trouble affording the services that the fire district provides on it’s behalf they will need to make some adjustments, but I trust they will place a very high priority on public health and safety.
EECV-
I agree completely, and made the same point at the Public Workshop on the Fitch Study of CONFIRE in Lafayette (the only one my schedule let me get to). Fire Suppression is basically a property-related benefit, and is rightly funded thru property tax. EMS is a people-related benefit, available to residents, nonresidents employed or shopping here, and people just passing through. It rightly should benefit from a broader funding basis. The recent change to distribute Measure H EMS money by population is a start, but is still a very small part of a Fire District’s budget.
I feel that our current partnership between Fire, County EMS, Hospitals, AMR, and the medical helicopter companies has resulted in an excellent EMS system, but remain open to any possibility to deliver the Fire part more effectively. I just want to see funding changes that stop the destructive reductions in the Fire Districts.
Well, Mr. Smith. Since you’re going to follow Don Flint(EECV) down the rabbit hole….
How much do medical runs add to your budget? In other words, what’s the potential savings if the rigs stayed in station and did not roll on medicals? Do you think it in any way approaches the $2.5M budget deficit you have for a 6 station model?
Because if you are going to be asking for money, you only get to ask for money that is related to medical calls. If you use the money for fire suppression efforts, you would be breaking the law. As a Director for the fire district, probably not a good idea.
There are plenty of costs that can be attributed to EMS and ECCFPD, at least, is capable of breaking them out in budgeting and financial reporting. Some are employee time in medical-related training, medical supplies, and medical equipment. If we ever go to Enhanced BLS or ALS, there are salary differentials for employees with the necessary certifications. If necessary, we can calculate medical response costs on a per-run basis. Since roughly 80% of our runs are EMS, it shouldn’t be hard.
One clue you might buy is that we currently run a 5-station model with the FEMA grant and are fighting to keep that going when that grant ends in November of 2014.
You did not address the main point. ECCFPD and CONFIRE are faced with cannibalizing Fire and EMS Service because Property Tax revenue is no longer sufficient to support the level of service. If new ideas are to be explored, EMS funding should certainly be one of them.
Don’t get your knickers in a knot, Steve. We _ARE_ exploring EMS funds as a possibility right here in this dialog.
First of all, your math logic sucks. The cost of rolling an engine to a medical is the cost of fuel and wear and tear on the vehicle. You are paying the salaries whether they go or stay. You are paying for basic EMT training whether they go or stay. That’s a pretty poor demonstrated handle on the facts on your part.
Fire departments and personnel are not paid by the call. You shouldn’t propagate that sort of misinformation with that poor an answer.
What you and dippy Don can’t seem to wrap your heads around is the fact that medical calls have over the last 30 years become a low cost add-on to fire departments nationwide. They have to be in station regardless. With total call volume dropping due to the better construction guidelines(mentioned in any number of studies, btw) it was a natural extension to use highly trained personnel with the gear to improve the overall medical response times independent of what agency is delivering it.
Now comes the fun part. Your new found friend Don already knows the answer to this one. Let’s see how well you do.
What services is the fire department currently performing that is a replacement or a supplanting of EMS responsibilities? Since you insist you’re entitled to some as yet undetermined amount of money, we don’t need to get into the small details. Just a ballpark guess or outline will do
I’ll give you a hint: NONE of what you listed is one of them.
I’m talking specific mandated services under California law. Not your opinion on what services you are supplanting and most certainly not Don’s opinion.
You don’t need to remind me that service will be cannibalized if new revenue is not found. But you aren’t going to be given a pass or handed a check for monies which you are not entitled to. So if you choose to continue down this path or if you are foolish enough to follow Flint’s baiting lead, you’re going to get thumped with a reality check.
(@ EECV)
Look what the kitty drug in. IT is the KOOK from East county, still spewing his same old EMS reimbursement bullcrap. What’s wrong, did you run out of acronyms are, are, are yyyou s-s-s-t-tuttering now?
Still trying to peddle your perverted diversion of EMS funding for the fire department? Cannot take NO for an answer? You might be stupid enough to make an attempt to dictate how the county spends its EMS budget but I doubt if any rational person would. They would get shown the door. You are familiar with that scenario, am I right?
EMS TRANSPORT and Hospital CARE are borne by the counties NOT on scene emergency medical treatment. ON SCENE ALS or BLS care is something you pay extra for and is borne by the fire department. ems TRANSPORT and ems first responder are two different things stupid.
It works the same way in all counties in the state. The fire districts are not providing anything on the counties behalf. It’s the other way around but you are too stupid to realize that. What a douche. Kenji would be wise to ignore you.
Mr. Smith,
Good to hear you have raised the issue of the county paying the district for the services it provides on it’s behalf. I expect many people will have adequate Business and Economics insight to conclude that the basis for pricing of services does not rest with the variable cost components.
If the county were to reduce the payments it makes to the other providers of its emergency medical services (ambulance for example) to the variable cost components it would surely save millions of dollars. I dont think the concept of pricing based solely on variable cost components warrants any further discussion.
What should serve as the cost basis for these services the County asks the district to provide on its behalf? Why not start by looking at the medical service code pricing document that the County already has in place with its other large service provider, AMR?
As Kenji has pointed out, there may be solutions that can be discussed. Now the challenge is to do so productively. I believe without such a discussion any new tax will fail.
Don(EECV)
Reduce payments to AMR? What payments to AMR?
Services the county asks the district to provide? I presume you mean medical services? What would those be, donnyboy? The ones that the QRVs provide through a no cost added benefit to east county?
Steve, you have officially hitched your wagon to one of east county’s biggest nutjobs. The king of innuendo and fishing expeditions. No single individual in Contra Costa can hold a candle to Mr. Flint in terms of county staff time wasted in witch hunts over the last 4-5 years. Usually for requested paperwork that he never bothers to retrieve. In fact, if you ask your own Chief, the name will be familiar to him as well.
He won’t deny that he’s been exposed. At the same time he won’t address any facts that stray from his prefabricated entitlement program plan.
You’ve been played.
As the head of the Finance Committee you better get smarter than that real quick or expect blowback from the constituency asking that you be removed from the position. It is absolutely essential for success of any proposed ballot measure that we not waste time chasing Unicorns. You Sir, are chasing one with this EMS nonsense. Between the value of the QRVs and Measure H money, you are already receiving a net $1.3+ M benefit.
I recommend you contact Pat Frost or LouAnn Teixeira immediately for an explanation on why you don’t have a dime coming to you. Apparently the memo that went out earlier was not read or you failed to comprehend what was being said.
EMS has a mandate for transport and hospital care. Not on-site/scene care. If you are providing either of the former, you have a case. You aren’t, so you don’t.
Well stated jigs up. That summed it up nicely.
EECV,
What color is the sky in your demented world? You are not living on the same planet as the rest of us.
You wrote; “What should serve as the cost basis for these services the County asks the district to provide on its behalf?”
Did you make that up yourself? …and did you practice with that voice in your confused little peanut brain? You must be compensating for something. Short mans complex? Crossed eyed syndrome?
Rumor has it you have been told at least once that the there is “no cost basis” because the county isn’t asking the fire district to provide any (medical) service. It’s also common knowledge that the county supplements the fire district’s ems shortcomings in east county.
You are dumber than a rock. Sorry that was not productive enough for you. Now please go crawl back under that rock before I embarrass you further.
I almost had a stroke EECV. Thought my big bro was finally cured from the time mom dropped him on the head at his early age. Its good to see someone not attacking others as soon as they walk in. BTW I haven’t heard from my big bro. He must have changed his alias again. Sometimes he has to go incognito from making stupid comments. For Don’tKnow to attack is probably because he has nothing constructive to say. I wonder what part of no he doesn’t understand. Guess he will here it again in spring. It just makes me fed up with stupid people. You know No.
Was that post Knightsin(sp) Ebonics or something? Could you make just a little more effort to make your sentences coherent?
I can’t recall the last time you posted a pertinent fact or a meaningful contribution of anything on topic. Could you refresh my memory?
Start with this: on you onboard with Don Flint’s EMS welfare program? Because we want to group the most ignorant people all in one corner as we attempt to educate them about the fiscal problems and funding mechanism available to the fire district.
@ ECV’s Brother,
Drinking again little brother? Or did you really have a stroke? Let’s hope so because if not, you are suffering from some serious brain rot. Thanks for helping all the fire department supporters with your confused rant. Poor little bastard.
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